Sept-Nov 1st Draft

[coppadella]

Howdy all,
Planning an 8-week trip for the fall: mid-September - mid-November. I'll try to keep this as short as I can not to bore anyone - I appreciate any feedback.

Some key notes:
- The following is with the plan of flying open-jaw from the US
- I've kept open 8 weeks/56 days for the trip, but the following is at 46 days, so please throw any recommendations my way to fill in the gaps. I'm keeping it conservative initially for that reason.
- That said I've added some potentials to tack on to the list if needed (at the bottom)


Days | Locale
4 - London
2 - Brugges (via Brussels and back)
3 - Amsterdam
3 - Prague (I'm assuming a flight?)
3 - Vienna
3 - Munich
3 - Interlaken
3 - Dolomites
4 - Rome (a flight the best route?)
3 - Cinque Terre
2 - Barcelona
3 - Madrid
3 - Lisbon
3 - Lagos
4 - Rabat (would anything other than a flight make sense?)


For travel I'm assuming (maybe naively) I can effectively use night trains and half days within the above to make it work. I know I should leave flack for that, but I won't have any issues sleeping on a lot of nighttrains, or getting little sleep. Plus from the note above I'll have some extra days for travel if needed.

Other points of interest:
Werfen / Rothenburg / Frankfurt / Budapest


Thanks a lot!

[Eagle]

coppadella, your Itinerary looks fairly well organized, however I'd probably use a slightly different order if planning this for myself. A few comments and questions on your proposed Itinerary:

> London - it might be a good idea to allocate 5 - 6 days in London, considering you'll lose the first day in flight times and time zone changes. There's a lot to see and do in London, and it would also give you a few days to get over jet lag and up to best "touring speed".

> Bruges - 2 days (were you planning to use the EuroStar from London St. Pancras to Brussels? It's a bit pricey but I believe there's a discount for Rail pass holders?)

> Amsterdam - 3 days

> Prague - 3 days (yes, a budget flight would be the best option. Using an arbitrary date, I found flights on Sky Europe for €89, inclusive of all taxes and fees. Be sure to check the airline policies with regard to baggage limits, etc. You might want to book this early, as the price will likely increase as the flight fills).

> Vienna - 3 days

> Munich - 3 days (you might want to add another day here if you'll be taking day trips to the Castles or Dachau. Be sure to allow enough time to see Munich also, as there are lots of historic sites, and of course the Hofbrauhaus! If you're interested in guided tours, have a look at Radius Tours - they have an office in the Munich train station).

> Dolomites - 3 days (this is where I would change the order. You didn't specify which town in the Dolomites you're interested in? Travelling directly from Munich seems like the most logical route?)

> Interlaken - 3 days (were you planning to visit only Interlaken, or venture to Gimmelwald or other areas of the Berner Oberland?)

> Cinque Terre- 3 days (which of the five villages were you planning to stay in? I would probably use a "day" train on this route, even though it's a bit of a long journey. The shortest trip I found (again, using an arbitrary date) departs Interlaken Ost at 07:29, arriving La Spezia Centrale at 14:04 (Time 6H 35M, 3 changes in Spiez, Milano Centrale & Genova Piazza Principe - compulsory reservations).

> Rome - 4 days (my preference would be to add at least 1 -2 days; it's an incredible city and there's a LOT to see! This is an easy trip by train, as there are several direct trains to Rome from the CT. For example, there's a train departing La Spezia Centrale at 10:06, arriving Roma Termini at 14:14 (Time 4H 08M, no changes, compulsory reservations).

> Barcelona - 2 days (I'd probably add at least 1 day, but I'll defer to herrbert's expert opinion on that. I'd suggest a budget flight from Roma Fiumicino to Barcelona; use the Leonardo Express to get from Termini to the airport - the fare was €11 when I was there recently. Both Vueling and ClickAir fly Rome - Barcelona. Depending on which day you choose, I found fares as low as €35, which appears to be inclusive of all taxes and fees.)

> Madrid - 3 days (again, more time might be required but this would depend on what you wanted to see there, including any day trips. Hopefully herrbert will have some thoughts).

> Lisbon - 3 days

> Lagos - 3 days

> Rabat - 4 days (I'm not that familiar with Morocco, so hopefully one of the others will have some comments. I'm also not sure if there are any Visa "issues" for U.S. citizens? You didn't specify how you planned to travel from Lagos to Rabat? For your open-jaw flight home from Rabat, you'll probably have to transit via a larger "hub" airport such as Frankfurt, Amsterdam, London or Paris. You didn't specify which part of the U.S. you're from, but I doubt you'll find a direct flight from Rabat? The only airline I could find on that route is Jet4You to Paris Orly - you'd have to use local transport to get to CDG for the flight home).

You'll probably need some of the "spare" days for travel, but you might be able to fit another stop in at some point (for example, a Prague - Budapest - Vienna route? Rothenburg is a bit out of the way, but if you don't mind the extra travel time, that might be possible?).

You mentioned night trains but didn't say if you were planning to just sleep in the compartment or rent a couchette? Keep in mind that if the train has several changes during the night you won't be getting much sleep, but you indicated that wasn't a problem. I normally try to avoid night trains by choosing a daytime route where the maximum travel time is 5-7 hours. I enjoy visiting with other travellers and seeing the scenery.

Hopefully the others will have some suggestions also.

Happy travels!

[herrbert]

Two days in Barcelona, will just be enough to see the highlights of the city, and maybe I should correct that to 2 whole days. Like Eagle I would add a day here. There are also a couple of daytrips that can be made, like Girona, and the Dali museum.

Madrid: In 4 days you can see Madrid, Toledo and Segovia. It's a bit of a packed shedule, but because you return to Madrid in the evening, you will have enough time to see Madrid.

Rabat: I tried to find cheap tickets to Rabat, but I can't find any. From Lagos, the nearest airport is Faro, which is only a small airport (used a lot for charters from Germany, UK, Netherlands). My personal opinion is that if you like to go to Morocco, you need to invest a little bit more time, and include some other destinations as well. (think about: Marrakesh / Casablanca / Fez / Chechaouen). The other way to get to Morocco is that take a ferry from Tarifa to Tanger. I would save Morocco for a future trip, and add some of the other cities you mentioned already, minus Frankfurt, and adding Salzburg (if you go to Werfen you'll pass Salzburg) that can be added really easy.

[coppadella]

Great, thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate your ideas and I'm using your advice to revise a new draft I plan on posting over the weekend.

I know Rabat is a little far-fetched but I have a friend in the Peace Corps stationed in Mauritania that I want to visit for a few days, so we're trying to work something out.

As a side note, do you think with this rough itinerary (considering new changes) it would make more sense to buy one Global 2-month consecutive ($1800) rail pass, or should I go with a Global Flexi pass ($1200) for 15 days in 2 months and foot the bill with any add-on travel?

There's probably no easy answer to that but mostly wondering since several areas I'm visiting aren't on Eurail.

[herrbert]

I really have no idea about passes. (passes for europeans are different, and I don't use them) but try www.railsaver.com. Here you can enter your route, and they come up with the best way to get around.

Also take a good look at cheapflights, if that helps to get the number of days down, it can mean you can get a cheaper pass. The Czech Republic is not included in most passes, so you need normal p2p-tickets for that part of the trip (as you want to fly in from A'dam, that means only from Prague to the Austrian border), Trains in Italy can be really cheap, so a pass is usualy not the best deal.

Also note that if you want to use nighttrains, you will still need to pay reservationfees and a fee for using a chouchette (bed).

Rabat: I was unaware of your need to visit a friend, which is always a very good reason to go there. As you have some days left, I would suggest adding a few to Morocco, to see some other place there as well. Maybe you can adjust the trip to get a flight from Barcelona to Faro (Air Berlin) and get to Lagos from there, travel to Lisbon, and end the European part in Madrid, from there you will have flights into Morocco, but it's likely you need another connection within Morocco as well.

[coppadella]

Ah, great idea about the travel reorder, thanks. I'm still working out the det's but it's a little tricky.

[jessus]

Hi there! I only have one thing to say (other than that your trip is similar to mine, but I'm going end of Aug- end of Oct)...

And that one thing: I did a quick count, and if the first day of your itinerary is between September 5th and September 20th, it will put you in Munich for Oktoberfest... not including any travel days that you may add. That could be a really good thing (because it's in Munich for Oktoberfet!) but it could be not so good (very difficult to get accomodation at this time).

[coppadella]

Thanks jessus - that's my plan exactly. A friend moved to Frankfurt recently to teach so we're planning on meeting up in Munich around Oct 1-5. I haven't taken care of accommodation however so I'll probably end up 40 miles out. Is that about when you're going? If so, send me a PM and maybe we can share a table?

[jessus]

Ah.. yeah. I bet the 40 miles out places will be fine! But that's a bit later than I'll be there (Sept 21st-25th)... but Cheers anyway!