Best friends trip!

[dalvas]

Hi,

Two friends in their late 20's from Auckland, New Zealand want to undertake a European tour in Sept 2009.
We would love any comments or suggestions on our draft itinerary. We have approx 8 weeks. We know that its quite cold round this time. We are going for a family celebration and would like to do some traveling while we are over that side of the world.
We have been quoted by a travel agent for flights/accommodation/travel between each city/turkey tour and hop on hop off bus/ passes in London/Paris/Rome. The quote was a bit out of our budget. But we are still shopping arnd. We would love to do it backpacking in hostels and think that would be a great way to meet people and cut costs. Any suggestions on good hostels?
Our NZ $ is not the best also

So - here it is!
Auckland - Beijing
16/9 - 19/9 - We would like to do this as a stopover to visit the Great Wall of China.

We will fly into Manchester on 19/9 and travel to Wales/Ireland till 25/9. We have a family party in Nth Wales on 26/9. So from the 19/9 to 27/9 we will be staying with family and sightseeing around Wales/Ireland with friends/family.

On the 28/9 we want to fly from Manchester to Amsterdam and spend 3 nights there - sightseeing etc. 1 friend has been here before and wants to go back - but would love suggestions on any interesting things to see.

On or around 3/10 to London for 3 - 4 nights. Again 1 friend has already been here. Would be interested in all the main sites and a must is a day trip out to Stonehenge. Do a hop on hop off bus trip around??

6/10 - Euro star London to Paris - 4 nts/4days - want to visit the Louvre/Notre Dame/champs Elysees/arc DE triomphe/Versailles - apparently we can get a 4 day museum pass - 50 euro. 1 friend been here also.

10/10 - Paris to Venice (overnight train)
3 ntes/3days - must do is we want to do a gondola trip. general sightseeing. ( any suggestions on good things to see & do)

14/10 Venice - Rome (train) - 4 nights. do a hop on hop off bus and sightsee. (any suggestions on good things to see & do)

18/10 - Rome to Athens (fly) - 3 nights - ( any suggestions on good things to see & do).

On or around 21/10 we want to fly from Athens to Istanbul to join up with a FEZ tour around Turkey - 9 day Shoestring Express - Istanbul/Gallipoli/Cannakkale/Troy/Pergamum/Ephesus/Kusadasi/Pammukale/Egirdir/Konya/Cappadocia/Ankara - back to Istanbul.

- Anyone know anything about the tours?

1/11 - We will fly to USA and do NYC for 4nights

5/11 - Then LA for 3-4 nights

Sorry for all the questions but any help or suggestions would be most welcome - we are still in the early stages, but need to also take advantage of early bird flight specials.
What does anyone think about booking the flights, travel between cities, passes and hop on hop off buses and the turkey tour with the travel agent and then trying to find hostels? Travel agent said she couldn't book hostels on our behalf.

I am also very conscious of the queues at many of the sites that we will go to and that is why I want the passes so that I can avoid the queues. I couldnt bear it to spend half a day in a line.

Thank you to everyone in advance who gives us any advice - it is much appreciated!!!

[Eagle]

dalvas, welcome to the Boards! That's an impressive trip you're planning! I'll offer a few initial suggestions and comments, and I'm sure the others will have some also. It's great that you're starting your planning now, as it provides lots of time to work out the details. If I read your post correctly, one of you has been to some of the cities previously, and the other has not? Could you provide some additional information on that?

One point to begin with - I often travel in the "fall shoulder season" (Sept. / Oct.) and haven't found it to be especially cold. There could be a few days when it's raining and a bit "chilly", but I've also experienced many sunny and warm days, even at the end of Sept. Of course there are no guarantees with the weather!

My first comment is that I wouldn't bother with a Travel Agent for things like travel between each city or Hop on / Hop off Bus tours. Those are very easy to plan yourself, and won't cost you extra. Travel agents (especially these days) have to charge for services that may have been previously provided at no cost. I would use a travel agent to book your flights from NZ to China, Europe, the U.S. and home.

In your list of cities, you asked about "interesting things to see" in each location. I'd suggest checking some Guidebooks for each city to see what sights and attractions might interest your group the most. Do a search on this site, as the topic of Guidebooks has come up previously.

I'll provide some general comments on each city next.

I would re-arrange the order of cities a bit to begin with. Go from Wales to London, and fly to Amsterdam from Luton, Stanstead or Gatwick (I haven't checked the flights yet, but I'm sure there's a budget flight from one of those airports).

> London - there's LOTS to see and do in London! Given the fact that you want to take a day trip to Stonehenge, is there any possibility of adding one day to London (make it 5 days)? There are lots of possibilities, depending on what you're interested in - Buckingham Palace, Tate Modern, lots of Musicals of various types, Imperial War Museum, St. Paul's Cathedral, Trafalfar Square, National Gallery, British Museum, Tower of London (be sure to take the tour with the Beefeaters). It's a LONG list!!! As I recall, there are at least two Hop On/Hop Off Bus tours there. The Red Buses are quite prevalent in many cities in the world, and that's certainly one choice. I believe there's another operating in London as well. It's easy enough to buy tickets when you're there, so I wouldn't bother pre-booking those.

One caution though, London (and the U.K. in general) are expensive given the exchange rates. Be sure to budget for that. I have much the same problem with currency exchanges, converting from the Canadian dollar.

> Amsterdam - 3 nights sounds good. I'll leave it to herrbert to provide more specific comments on the sights there.

> Paris - Again, there's lots to see, but 4 nights should be good. Regarding the Paris Museum Pass, you might want to check their web site, to see what attractions the Pass covers. If you're going to use it a lot, then it's good value. However, have a close look at what you want to use it for, as using the two day Pass may work too? The Museum Pass does help to minimize queue's though.

Regarding the Louvre, you may want to focus on just one of the three wings (Denon, Richelieu, Sully) as it takes lots of time to properly see all of them. If you're just interested in the Mona Lisa, I believe it's still in the Denon wing, so you may want to concentrate on that.

If you like art, I would highly recommend the Musee d'Orsay (it's one of my favourites!). The collection of impressionist art is fantastic, and the building is an elegant old train station.

One other thing you might consider in Paris would be to take a Segway tour. It's a bit expensive but a lot of fun. Check the web site.

> Venice - first of all, I believe most of the Hostels are a bit "distant" from Piazza san Marco, so you may want to consider a budget Hotel when in Venice? Hopefully some of the others here can provide some details on that?

As far as touring, you want want to take the Elevator up the tower for a fantastic view of Venice, tour the Doge's Palace ("Il Palazzo Ducale") the Museum & Galleries or just enjoy the unique location. One comment on the Gondola rides, they are VERY expensive so be sure to budget for that. I usually travel solo, so there's no way I will spend that amount of money to take a ride in a Gondola. One tip though, when you take the Vaporetto from Venezia SL station, be sure to take your Backpack off and place it on the deck when you're on the boat. If you don't, you'll be sternly told "Il Zaino sul terra"!

One note though, I find Venice to be a bit more expensive than other locations in Italy, so be prepared for that. For example, if you want to sample an "authentic" Bellini in Harry's American Bar (where it originated), I think the cost is up to about Eu$ 15 now!

Do either of you speak Italian? I would recommend familiarizing yourselves a bit with some of the usual words, as I've found that really helps in Italy, and also in France.

> Bella Roma - again, there is LOTS to see and do here. What did you have in mind? Are you planning to visit the Colosseum, Forum and Palatine Hill? If you do want to visit there, it would be a good idea to buy a "combo ticket" on Palatine Hill as it's good for all three sites and will get you into the Colosseum faster. Take a right turn at the Arch of Constantine and walk up the hill. The ticket office is kind of "set into the side of a cliff". When you get inside the Colosseum, I'd highly recommend taking the "official" Guided tour. It's well worth the cost, and it's nice to be able to ask quesstions of the Guide (as opposed to using an Audioguide). Don't fall for the scammers out front asking "do you want an English tour".

Again in Rome, the Hop On / Hop Off Red Bus tours are easy to find. As I recall, they usually stop in front of Termini station, so you can buy tickets there. I can't recall the details, but I believe the ticket offices are just in front of the station.

If possible try and get to the Trastevere area for at least part of a day. It's a really interesting area, and not far from the Pantheon and Piazza Navona.

If you need further information on the "typical" way meals are structured in Italian restaurants, post another note.

For Hostels in Rome, you might consider Alessandro Palace or The Beehive, as they're both really close to Termini. Fawlty Towers is in the same area, but I've never stayed there so can't comment. You could also check the Hostelling International web site.

In any of the large cities in Europe, but especially Rome and Paris be sure to wear a Money Belt and be very aware of those around you. There ARE petty thieves at work!

I assume your flight to Greece is from Fiumicino? Use the Leonardo Express to get to the airport from Termini (about 30 minutes - don't forget to validate your ticket).

> Athens - I would probably drop one night from here, but with such a short visit you won't have enough time to get to the islands (Santorini). In terms of what to visit, the usual historic sights, but I'll leave it to the others to provide more information on that.

> Istanbul - I don't have any information on Istanbul or FEZ Tours, so can't offer any tips. Hopefully one of the others can help with that ( CALLING MTH!! )

> U.S. destinations - I can't offer much help with New York, but can with Los Angeles. What do you want to see in L.A.? I assume you're flying back to New Zealand from L.A.?

For your travels around Europe, if neither of you has been there recently, I'd strongly recommend doing a bit of research on "Rail skills" as it will help to ensure that your trip goes smoothly.

Hopefully this has been some help. I'm sure the others will have some tips as well.

Good luck with your planning!

[dalvas]

Thank you for taking the time to provide such an in depth reply. Its reassuring for us in terms of planning! Can't wait for the others responses!

[herrbert]

adding Amsterdam:

The citycenter of Amsterdam is pretty small, so I would encourage you to walk a lot.

In my opinion you need to see the Van Gogh Museum. (I love this museum because of the chronologic exhibition, which makes the changes in the life of van Gogh so much clearer.)

The other must-see is the Anne Frank house.

Then there are of course a lot of different other things to do and see, depending on your tastes. It might be fun to see a gig at Paradiso, a concert hall, that once was a small church. If you are an artlover, the Rijksmuseum is a place to go, but maybe it's better to wait until the renovation of the museum is completed somewhere in 2012 - 2013 or even later.

Go for the tacky canalboat tour. At least I think these are tacky, but you will see a lot during a tour like that. Maybe rent some bikes, and try not to be in the way of the 'Amsterdammers'.

With three nights (so 2 full days) you will have time to see the most important sights. With 1 day more, you would be able to visit nearby Haarlem or The Hague as a daytrip.

[madamtrashheap]

To add to Eagle and herrbert's excellent pieces of advice:

Istanbul/FEZ Travel: (you rang Eagle?! ) FEZ are a good tour company and that particular tour you've chosen offers good coverage in a short space of time, and you'll certainly cover a lot of ground each day. I've had a few friends who have either worked for FEZ or travelled with them and all recommend them. They aren't glamorous tours, but then you're there to see the country, not swan around!

As for Istanbul, it's my favourite place in Turkey - vibrant, different, can't rave about it enough. No doubt you'll visit the obligatory carpet store(s) on your tour (make sure you try the apple tea whilst haggling for a carpet!), so other things to do in Istanbul before/after you tour are: visit a bathhouse and enjoy a steam, a massage (rough, but good) and a shave (you'll float out, so make sure you don't have anything to do for a few hours - try Caðaloðlu Turkish Bathhouse); visit the Ayasofya (Hagia Sophia - amazing building opposite the Blue Mosque that has been a Basilica, a Mosque and is now a museum showing remnants of both faiths); the Sultan Ahmetd Mosque or Blue Mosque (again, another incredible building that is the main Mosque of Turkey, the blue refers to the light inside from the tiles and it is a serene place considering how many people - tourists and locals - visit the building); wander through the Spice Markets, real name is the Egyptian Markets, and marvel at the colours and smells (and tastes!); take a boat ride on the Bosphorus Straight at the Golden Horn and cross over to Asia; wander the maze that is the Grand Bazaar/Covered Bazaar, but make sure you haggle a lot if you're going to purchase anything. The stall holders used to always haggle, but now they just shrug unless you really put up a good arguement. Plus it's fun to hear the words "genuine fake" when they are referring to shirts, bags, etc - seriously! I like the Bazaar, and it's good to have conversations with some of the stall holders, but it's not for everyone.

For Athens, as you'll be at the end of the Summer season, most of the islands will be closing down but Athens will still be happening, so you'll be able to find things to fill 2 full days (3 nights), but if you need to reduce your stay their by 1 night, then that will be fine, just take an early flight from Rome to give yourselves a day and a half to play with before going to Istanbul. Athens offers a lot in terms of sightseeing, so it depends on what your really want to see. Of course the Acropolis and it's temples are well worth the climb, and you can wander the gardens near the Temple of Zeus for a bit more sightseeing. Other things to see include the Plaka area, Syntagma Square, the Panathenian stadium and changing of the guard around the corner at the Parliament in the National Gardens. The Metro system is really good, but there is also a hop-on-hop-off bus tour that you can take that will cover the main sights in a day. The Plaka area is good at night for food and bars, but you might also like to try the Psyri area as an alternative.

On flying from Athens to Istanbul - check Olympic Airways or Turkish Airlines for the best deals and times. I'm not aware of any budget airlines flying this route, but maybe one of the other Members has an idea (herrbert?!). At any rate, if you can book your flight as far in advance as possible, you'll likely get a better price than leaving it until a month before.

I also second Eagle in recommending you not book the hop-on-hop-off city tour busses through an Agent. There's no need for it as tickets are readily available daily (they have lots of busses!) and you'll pay a booking fee with your Agent as opposed to simply paying the ticket cost on the day. And I second herrbert's recommendations for Amsterdam - even the tacky canal boat ride! It's a fun way to see the city, day or night, and beats being run over by all the bicycles which rule the roads (along with their friends "the trams"!).

Happy planning!

[herrbert]

The Athens - Istanbul connection is a difficult connection in a lot of itineraries. They seem close to eachother, but trains take a long time to make it, and I guess flights are too short (or economically not interesting), as no budgetairlines flies this route.

To a to Jack's remark, about the Rijksmuseum: The renovation that was planned to be finished this year or coming year, will not be finished anytime soon. It will take a couple of year before the Rijksmuseum will reopen in it's old (new) glory. At this moment you will be able to see a collection of the top-pieces. (like the Nachtwacht (try that Jack ) by Rembrandt)