Italy and Greece??? Plus UK and France? Help! ;)

[bethanygm]

My husband and I just decided that we are going to take a major trip to Europe before we start our family.
A little background.
We both love history and spend a lot of time watching different shows on discovery/history channels. He is originally from Argentina and in the Navy. He's been to Italy and England..And some more places.. but only for a day or two and didn't get to see much. I have seen most of the U.S. but have never left the country.
We now live in Hawaii- this is a big factor in our budget, because from preliminary searches it appears we're looking at $1500 each ONE way. We can take 30 days of vacation.. or less if that's all we can afford. I think 3 weeks would be the minimum. We might be able to get around 10k for this. We should have it by May or June.. I am worried about too hot weather???


Some places we'd like to go to see the sites and museums etc.
- Stonehenge- I think we're fascinated by the mystical quality of that stuff... (Ireland is on a list for later)
-Paris and the countryside of France... you know what?? We might be able to leave this out for now.. Know of any cool historical stuff here?
-Rome- both raised Roman Catholic and we're fascinated by the history of all of that
- Venice and Florence.. other towns? I want to see all of the architecture and the places where so much history took place (renaissance).. I definitely want to see some museums here, too.
-italian countryside? I love nature, but we won't have a car or anything..

Greece-
Athens, of course... Any other towns with ruins/history.


Crete- we want to see Knossos and other towns there. We are both pretty interested in Crete and I could see us spending quite a few days there.

Spain.... He has some family in Spain and some towns named after our family, but I don't know if we really will have time.

I will probably be buying all kinds of books and studying the history and culture of the places we are going.. I feel pretty ignorant right now. So much I don't know. I am watching these hour long episodes about the Medici Family from Netflix and they are making me so excited to someday see where all of this took place.

It seems to me that Italy and Greece would be enough by themselves.


Any help in planning this would be appreciated, since I am feeling pretty overwhelmed.


PS... on another note... does anyone here have kids?
I am getting so excited about this trip and we are planning on starting our family at the end of 2009 sometime. I am wondering how possible it is to travel with kids back to Europe. I remember my family getting frustrated when they just took us to Disney World.

[Eagle]

bethanygm, Welcome to the Boards! I'll "start the ball rolling" with a few suggestions. Hopefully, we can help with your feeling of "being overwhelmed". Although your husband has been to some of these locations before, I'm sure it will be much different seeing them as a tourist as opposed to a day or two on shore leave.

To begin with, your plan to travel in the spring shoulder season (May / June) is good, as generally speaking the weather is quite good and the crowds are "manageable". However, even at that time of year, I'd suggest pre-booking your accomodations. You could also consider the fall shoulder season (Sept. / Oct) as that might provide extra time to get funds together.

I am worried about too hot weather

Considering your home location, that was surprising to hear!

Travel from Hawaii to Europe is going to be a long flight! I spoke with a group from Sicily when I was in Honolulu in February, and their flight was almost a full day! One suggestion you might consider would be a "short" flight to Vancouver, and then use Air Transat to Europe (check WestJet which often has seat sales, or Air Canada to Vancouver). A.T. will be starting weekly direct flights to both Rome and Barcelona / Madrid in the New Year (around April). The costs might be a bit more manageable using a charter airline.

We both love history and spend a lot of time watching different shows on discovery/history channels

Have you got a PBS Channel available there? I'd suggest watching Rick Steves Europe also (more about his books later).

Given the distance you have to travel and the fact this might be the last trip you take for a while, my preference would be to take the maximum vacation time you can get. If you're going to travel all that way across a number of time zones and have to suffer through jet lag, you may as well stay for a while!

With only 30 days to work with (not a long time in terms of European travel), you'll probably only be able to hit the "highlights" as there won't be sufficient time for exploring too much. Many people have a tendency to try to fit too many stops into a limited time frame, and while this may be theoretically possible, it means they end up seeing Europe from the windows of a train or budget airline!

As usual, I'd suggest using "open jaw" flights for best efficiency, perhaps starting in London and flying home from Greece or Italy. In the major cities (London, Paris, Rome) it's best to budget at least four or five days, due to the historical significance and the number of places to see. Other locations rate two or three days (depending on interest). I try to minimize one night stops, as they get to be very tiring.

Some of the other locations you may find interesting (although you won't have a lot of time to add many additional stops) would the Cinque Terre, Lago di Como, Siena, Orvieto, the Amalfi Coast (Italy), the Normandy area for the historical significance (France), the Berner Oberland (Switzerland), or Bavaria (Germany).

Here are a few ideas to consider on the destinations you listed:

> Stonehenge - you could either do this as a day trip from London OR you could spend a few days in Bath and take a trip from there (check www.madmax.abel.co.uk/ for details). In London you might enjoy visiting HMS Belfast, which is moored (permanently) on the south bank of the Thames (near the Tower Bridge). The displays are really well done and the ship has a significant history. There's also the Imperial War Museum, Tate Modern, the Tower of London, the BA London Eye, etc. LOTS to see and do!!!

> Paris - there's LOTS to see and do in Paris! As you want to see "some Museums", you'll probably want to visit the Louvre. Don't try and see all three wings, you WON'T have time. You might want to focus on the Denon wing, which is where the Mona Lisa is located. I'd also recommend the Musee d'Orsay, which has a fantastic collection of impressionist art; it's located in an elegant old train station. A Paris Museum Pass (two day version?) would be a good idea, as it minimizes queues.

> Venice - Allow about two days there. It's a bit more expensive than other locations in Italy, but is such a unique location it's well worth seeing. If you're planning on a Gondola ride, they are expensive so be sure to allow for that in the budget.

> Florence - the renaissance capitol and a big favourite of many here! If you're planning to visit the Uffizi or Accademia, reservations would be a good idea so that you don't have to queue with those that don't know any better.

> Rome - there is so much to see here, it's almost overwhelming! You'll want to visit the Colosseum of course. When your planning gets a bit further along, I'll give you some suggestions for avoiding the queues there. I'm sure you'll be impressed with St. Peter's but there is a strict dress code so be sure there's no bare shoulders. The Guards there are brutal to those who disobey (I've seen examples)! The building itself is so magnificent, but of all the displays inside, I found The Pieta to be especially moving. If you want to hike to the roof, you may have to queue for a bit (more suggestions on that in another post). I'd suggest taking the elevator part way, even though there's a slight charge. When you get to the top, you'll notice that NO building in Rome is taller than St. Peter's.

> Greece - I'd suggest only about two days in Athens, but plan your touring carefully. I'll leave more specific suggestions to the others. As your husband is in the Navy, you may want to visit some of the military sites on Crete.

> Spain - this is a bit "distant" from some of your other destinations (meaning travel times would have to be factored in), so I'm not sure if a quick stop there might be possible? I'm a bit pressed for time this morning, but will try and have a closer look in the next day or so. It might be possible to spend a day or so in Barcelona after Greece and then fly home from there? I haven't checked but there are probably budget flights from Athens to Barcelona?

To get your planning off to a good start, I would highly recommend that you read the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door. It's an essential pre-read for smart planning to travel Europe. Pay close attention to the "Rail Skills" chapter! Check your local Library or book stores. When your plans start to take shape, you can also use more country-specific Guidebooks to plan lodgings and sightseeing ideas.

A few miscellaneous suggestions - it would be a really good idea to use Moneybelts when travelling, as there IS petty crime in Europe. Also, if you will be travelling with electronic devices (Cameras, Cell Phones, etc.), you'll need to consider whether these devices are designed for "world" operation. At the least you will probably need to buy some Plug Adapters.

Yes, I "have kids" but they're all grown now. However, I did travel with them when they were younger, so have some experience in that area. You might enjoy reading www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/graffiti117.html.

I'm sure the others will have lots of good suggestions also. I'll post more ideas for you later.

Good luck with your planning!