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Post by stontyro on Jan 15, 2009 3:38:20 GMT -5
Hi there expert travelers! This is my first trip to Europe! Some basics: I want to budget €4,000 for the trip (unless that's unreasonable). Really want to go to Helsinki Meet-up with friends in Munich (preferably a weekend) Gotta see the Alps Gotta see Denmark To save you all some time, I've sketched out my draft on google maps: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108377089559232005757.000460793e14ec2ec6851&t=p&z=5But for forum record-keeping (should the link go bad), here is my draft plan: Arrive in London: 13 April London: 2 nights: 13 - 15 April + 2 flexible days before Travemünde Ghent: 2 nights: 17 - 19 April Brussels: 3 nights 19 - 21 April Amsterdam: 3 nights 21 - 24 April Bremen: 3 nights 24 - 27 April Travemünde: 1 night: 27 - 28 April Ferry: 1 night: 28 - 29 April Helsinki: 4 nights: 29 April - 2 May Ferry: 1 night: 2 - 3 May Travemünde: passing through: 3 May + 1 flexible day before Munich Kolding: 3 nights: 4 - 7 May Copenhagen: 7 - 10 May Bus: 1 day: 10 may Berlin: 4 nights: 10 - 14 May Dresden: 2 nights: 14 - 16 May Munich: 3 nights: 16 - 19 May Lake Constance: 2 nights: 19 - 21 May Heidelburg: 3 nights: 21 - 24 May Black Forest: 2 nights: 24 - 26 May Geneva: 2 nights: 26 - 28 May Bourges: 3 nights: 28 - 31 May Nantes: 3 nights: 31 May - 3 June Paris: 3 nights: 3 - 6 June + 5 flexible days after Munich London: 2 nights: 11 - 13 June Depart from London: 13 June |
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Post by herrbert on Jan 19, 2009 18:41:28 GMT -5
Looks like a very nice trip.
I think 4000 euros is doable, but it depends a bit what you have to pay for. If this is without the flight to Europe, than it will be doable. Remember that Finland and Sweden are expensive, but also beautiful.
I would make it 4 days in Belgium, (see Brugge, as a daytrip from Gent, and make it 2 days in Brussel.) I would prefer a stop in Groningen or Hamburg over Bremen, and I think 3 days here would be to much. I presume the night in Travemünde is to catch the ferry.
4 nights in Helsinki is enough, but also consider making the trip to Tallin. You can do it in one day (take the first ferry, and return with the last one), or make it a night in Tallin. For Helsinki book in time, and avoid the stadium hostel.
Kolding for me is an unknown place, but I would question it to be worth 3 days. (unless when it is for visiting friends or family.)
The region around the Bodensee (Lake Konstanz) is an expensive region, so book something in advance when you want something cheap in this region.
If you have some extra days to spend. I would suggest heading from Munich to Salzburg, it is close, and the Ice Caves and the Castle in Werfen (a small moutain village nearby) are worth a visit. Another option (or maybe do both) would be Innsbruck, or the lesser know town of Imst (also in Austria). From here it is not that far to Bregenz and the Bodensee.
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Post by stontyro on Jan 20, 2009 17:53:10 GMT -5
Thank you Herrbert. I have updated my plan based on some of your suggestions and also plenty of time studying. This time I left some hints about why I want to be in some places at certain times. Also, I have at least one alternate route to consider. This is all somewhat complicated to explain, so here again is the visual aid: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=p&msa=0&msid=108377089559232005757.0004608b15a8f158caca8&z=4The google map also has a bunch of markers on other places nearby the route that I have been considering for day trips, alternate routes, etc. There is no way I'll be able to visit them all. I moved the start and end dates for this draft to 9 April and 9 June, Thursday and Tuesday, to avoid weekend air travel. The current draft is: Arrive 9 April: London London: 2 nights Ghent: 2 nights Brussels: 2 nights Amsterdam: 3 nights Groningen: 2 nights Hamburg: 2 nights Rostock: 1 night (25 - 26 April) Rostock - Helsinki: Ferry, 1 night, €168 round trip (cheaper than Travemünde) Helsinki: 4 nights (27 April - 1 May) -- May Day Festival -- U. of Helsinki Helsinki - Rostock: Ferry, 1 night Rostock: 1 night (2 May - 3 May) Rostock - Gedser: Ferry, 2 hours, €7 Gedser: passing through (3 May) Copenhagen: 3 nights Fredricia: 2 nights Berlin: 4 nights Dresden: 2 nights -- Dixieland: Aim for 13 May - 17 May Munich: 3 nights -- Weekend with Friends: Aim for 16 May - 17 May Heidelburg: 3 nights Black Forest: 2 nights Geneva: 5 nights (2 in Geneva) -- Bike around Lake Geneva, 4 full days. Bourges: 3 nights (Avoid Sunday) Nantes: 3 nights Paris: 3 nights London: 2 nights Depart 9 June: London 4 flexible days London to Rostock 2 flexible days Rostock to Munich 4 flexible days Munich to London Alternate route: Helsinki - Tallinn - Stockholm - Copenhagen One more thing. Planning with number of days here and there is confusing to me, so I've been planning by the number of nights I will be in a place. So, two nights means one full day at a location. I was surprised by your notion that I might be spending too much time in a place, because at the same time I worry that I'm moving on too quickly! But thanks a lot for your advice; I have no experience with this. |
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Post by Eagle on Jan 20, 2009 23:16:57 GMT -5
stontyro, Welcome to the Boards! I have a few comments and questions to add.
Your proposed Itinerary looks reasonably well organized, however I'm wondering whether there's adequate travel time between some destinations? Some of the cities are relatively close (about 4-6 hours travel time) so those won't be a problem, but other legs of the trip may be a bit longer. I'm assuming you'll be using rail to get between cities? You didn't indicate whether your budget of €4000 includes rail / ferry tickets?
Regarding your budget, it seems a bit low for what appears to be a 60-day trip. According to my "math" that allows about €67 per day. As herrbert mentioned, the Scandinavian countries especially are quite expensive (as is the U.K.) so I suspect it might be a bit "challenging" to work with a budget in that range. I'm assuming you will have extra funds to provide for a Rail Pass, Ferry tickets and transport from the U.K. to Ghent and return?
My preference under the circumstances would be to stay in London a few days longer at the beginning and then fly home from Munich using open jaw flights. However, you didn't indicate where you're flying from so I have no idea what flight options will be available to you.
Good luck with your planning!
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Post by stontyro on Jan 21, 2009 1:40:53 GMT -5
Thank you Eagle. I would spend the occasional day on the train, or nights on a ferry as the case may be. That said, your point about travel time is well taken. I would much rather spend my time with my feet on the ground than in a train. Would a trip with several runs or nearby cities separated by a few long-distance hops make more sense? I'm thinking, hopping on an intercity connector for a few euros; those are generally available, right?
Based on the cost of rail passes and daily expenses, it looks like I will have to consider travel costs in addition to the €4000 budget. Supplies are already covered except for replacing some worn out pants and underwear. I wouldn't spend half of €66 at home on any average day. I'm pretty cautious with my spending. Certainly I will have regular expenses that I would not have at home, such as lodging, eating out, and more activities. I'm not excited by shows or art museums, but I would take tours through some historic places. My budget is based on a gift given to me after graduating from college and some of my savings. I also have a safety net, but I would like to avoid using that if possible. I did plan on being a little poorer after the trip.
As much as I was looking forward to Helsinki, I could consider postponing the visit to when I am earning more. That would also give me six more days to fool around with, and more flexibility with the dates. I could shorten the trip, too. There is no reason I have to do the trip in exactly two months; it just turned out to be convenient so far for developing the schedule.
I don't know what I think about open-jaw tickets. I assume they aren't normally as cheap as round trip, but I could be mistaken. I'll see what the big airfare sites offer for London/London vs London/Munich, London/Geneva, Paris/etc.
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Post by Eagle on Jan 21, 2009 3:43:57 GMT -5
stontyro,
When you're "number crunching" the costs of direct tickets vs. open-jaw, don't forget to include the costs and time it will take to return to your original starting point (in this case back to London).
I always use open-jaw tickets, simply because this is a more efficient travel method IMHO, and even if the cost is slightly higher it's worth it to me to make the trip easier and with less hassles.
Cheers!
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Post by herrbert on Jan 21, 2009 9:06:55 GMT -5
As much as I was looking forward to Helsinki, I could consider postponing the visit to when I am earning more. You could consider a round trip by plane, from Munich by Lufthansa. If I check it under the BetterFly deals, it must be possible to find a returnflight around 150 euros. (single flights on these 'normal' airlines are normaly more expensive. If you want to have single flights you can check AirBerlin, they have flights to and from Helsinki to multiple destinations. So you could fly from Munich, and then fly to London. I wonder know, why I didn't think about open jaw tickets in this case. i would be great if you could fly home from Helsinki. (you would only need a one-way ticket (or go via Copenhagen - Malmö - Stockholm (train) Turku (by ferry) - Helsinki (train). (or as an alternative fly Stockholm - Helsinki (with BlueOne/SAS) |
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Post by stontyro on Jan 25, 2009 1:19:03 GMT -5
snip snip snip -- that's me cutting hunks out of my plan (just to see how it feels)
I've been looking at Eurail options, and I think the best for me is the Benelux-Germany regional pass. Unfortunately, that would mean no France, Switzerland, or Denmark. I didn't put Luxembourg in my plans so far, but doing a circular route with this pass, it would make sense to visit. I'm going to make the changes to my draft to see if I like it, then it'll be back to you for critique.
I'm a little annoyed about how Eurail passes are chunked into days. That makes a short trip a waste. I'm going to try to make my trips such that I leave one city early in the morning, do a day trip somewhere before continuing to the day's final destination. That still really limits my day trip as I have to budget enough time to find my way to and around the final destination. Maybe it's not that bad. I'll surely put up with it so as not to waste the ticket. On second thought, it's not as bad as it could be with fixed dates and no option to stop along the way.
The 10 day pass means I get to plan 11 long-stay destinations and 10 day trips. Other day trips can be made without the pass from the long-stays. Long stays would be on average about 5 days, not counting the days of travel. I'll try to put long stays in cities and use the rail trips to visit places that are further away and between cities.
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Post by WillTravel on Jan 25, 2009 3:04:40 GMT -5
You don't have to rule out a country just because you don't have a pass. There are other great deals you can get, particularly for single tickets. It's true that Eurail passes are not good for short trips, but often you can do these quite cheaply anyway. So often the best plan is to get a small number of days for a relatively small area, and then add all your other destinations using cheap, single tickets. Just as an example (I haven't looked at your updated plans), it's frequently possible to travel between Germany and France for a ticket that costs something like 25-40 Euros. Some sites I have used to get great deals on single tickets: www.thalys.comvoyages-sncf.com www.bahn.de |
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