New Years Itenary

[monty1104]

OK, so there are 8 of us planning on travelling through Europe over Xmas/New years. We are doing a contiki tour which takes us up to New Years day. The rest is where I need some help ironing out a few kinks.

1st-3rd - Amsterdam
4th - Amsterdam --> Berlin
5th-8th - Berlin
9th - Berlin --> Paris
10th-13th - Paris
14th - Paris --> Barcelona
15th-19th - Barcelona
20th - Home

It looks ok on paper to me, but I'm just not sure about the travel times between cities, and also the time spent in each city. If someone could give me advice on this that would be great.

Please keep in mind that our Contiki tour goes through Paris, so we might not need as much time to do Paris a second time around.

Cheers guys n girls

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome back to the Boards monty1104!

Did you end up booking the same tour you mentioned last year or is this a different one? How long is it? The advantages of doing an organised tour at that time of year is that you know you'll have a roof over your head on those busy days, you'll have plenty of people with you to celebrate, Europe in winter is just fab (bah humbug to those who say it's too cold!) and depending on what city you're in for NYE you will have new things to experience.

I'm assuming the tour finishes (or you get off) in Amsterdam - is that correct? You'll usually only have 2 nights and one full day in Amsterdam, so an additional 2-3 days in Amsterdam will be good, and don't forget some day trips to places like Den Haag (the Hague), Groningen, etc to break up all that time in Amsterdam.

Berlin - flying from Amsterdam to Berlin will be your best bet to save time, otherwise you could consider the overnight train. It's your choice, but I'd recommend flying so you can sneak in as much time in Berlin as possible - great city. Look for flights with Transavia ( www.transavia.com ) from AMS to Berlin Tegel (TXL) which should take 1hr15min and be pretty cheap if you book far enough ahead. Trains from the centre of Amsterdam to Schiphol airport are very frequent (about every 15mins) and the journey takes 20mins. Then from Tegel to the centre of Berlin (let's say to Alexanderplatz) you can take the JetExpressBus directly from the airport (up to 11pm) which takes around 30-40mins, there are other stops it makes, I just chose the most likely for your accommodation (at a guess). Suggested day trips (once you've seen the city) - you might find there's too much to do in Berlin for any day trips, but you could look at Sachsenhausen which was a Concentration Camp.

Paris - again I'd recommend flying from Berlin to Paris. Check Air Berlin for flights from Tegel to Orly or EasyJet for flights from Schönefeld to Orly. Flights take around 2 hrs, then the journey (by airbus to the RER train station) to Paris centre takes about 30mins all up. Suggested day trips (once you've seen the city) - Versailles, Giverny (if you like Monet), Lyon (if you feel like a ride on the TGV and a great selection of restaurants in the Old Town).

Barcelona - and one more time...fly this route from Paris as the overnight train is a v long one. Look at Vueling or EasyJet for flights from Charles de Gaulle (CDG) or EasyJet for flights from Orly. Flights are just under 2hrs. Make sure you fly to BCN and not the Girona airport (it's way north of Barcelona). Then from the airport to the city centre takes about 20mins (traffic dependent) and you can take the Aerobus (every 15mins from each terminal) or the train (overland RENFE, not Metro/Underground). Suggested day trips (once you've seen the city) - Valencia (I like it and it's had a makeover of late), Figures (home of one of Dali's great museums, so go if you're into surrealist art).

I haven't suggested taxis as a form of transport for you all as in some cases they will be quite expensive, plus fitting 6 of you with luggage into one car will be hard as there aren't too many large cabs/maxi taxis in some places.

Of course travelling at that time of year can be affected by the weather, so keep this in mind and have backup plans in case you have to stay in a city longer than you expected. Just look at the recent airport closures (Sunday) in London due to snow. OK, London is one of the only major capital cities I know that closes down when it snows (!), but airports, trains, roads in Europe (and elsewhere in the northern hemisphere) are all affected at this time of year by the weather.

As you will see, most of those flights are only a few hours long, so taking that and travel time to/from airports into consideration, you'll find you have an extra afternoon in each city (assuming you fly mid-morning) to play with. The tiem you've allocated to each city will allow for lots of sightseeing, nightlife and even the odd day trip (see above), so looks good on paper to me too!

[monty1104]

Thanks for all the info Madam. Its really helpful!

Yes, we have booked the tour I spoke of last year ( I think, its been a long time planning and there have been lots of changes).

With the inter city flights, how far in advance can you book them? I'd like to have it all booked before we leave for the tour, just so I can relax and not worry about all the organising.

Also, would Brussels be a viable day trip from Amsterdam. Its somethign I really want to see, but not necessarily spend a night there if I can avoid it.

And yes, we get off our tour in Amsterdam. It just makes more sense than going back to London then back out.

From Barcelona, is it possible to visit the monestir de monseratt (sp?) as a day trip, or even as a half day trip. Looking at a map, it does seem like a half day trip if we left early enough in the morning, but ive also found out that looks can be deceiving when planning travel routes in Europe.

[herrbert]

I think I would switch the positions of Paris and Berlin on this trip. From Amsterdam you can take the Thalys to Paris, but it also has a stop in Brussels. As I think Brussels is too far away to do it as a daytrip. (if you really want it, it is possible, but most likely you will spend a lot of money, and only have a few hours in Brussels.) I would take one day from Paris, as you say you will already visit it on the tour, and maybe even one from Barcelona, and spend this time in Brussels. (with maybe a trip to Brugge, Gent, Antwerp or Leuven.

So I would go:

1-3: Amsterdam
4: travel (thalys to Brussels)
5-6: Brussels
7: travel (thalys to Paris)
8-10: Paris
11: travel (flight: Vueling/Iberia/Clickair)
12-14: Barcelona
15: travel (flight to Berlin: Easyjet/Iberia/AirBerlin/Germanwings)
16 - 19: Berlin
20: Home

You will probably have some half days left, on the travelling days, as some of the trips are pretty short.

[herrbert]

Feb 4, 2009 2:32:40 GMT -5 madamtrashheap said:

OK, London is one of the only major capital cities I know that closes down when it snows (!), but airports, trains, roads in Europe (and elsewhere in the northern hemisphere) are all affected at this time of year by the weather.

I have seen that Madrid closed down as well due to snow, in early January. They are not prepared for snow in the south, so if there is snow, they don't know how to handle it.

[monty1104]

Just looking at the Thalys fares, the Smoove fare states that you can buy it up to 30 days before departure. I assume that the fare is available well in advance though. Would that be correct?

[WillTravel]

I think in general it starts being available about 89-90 days before departure. However, do not count on it being available 30 days before departure. If all the cheap seats are sold out at 88 days pre-departure, for example, in advance, you won't get the cheap fare after that.

[monty1104]

OK, so we have made some changes to the itinerary, so here is the new plan.

1st-2nd - Amsterdam
3rd - Amsterdam --> Brussels
4th - 5th - Brussels
6th - Brussels --> Berlin
7th - 10th - Berlin
11th - Berlin --> Paris
12th - 14th - Paris
15th - Paris --> Madrid
16th - Madrid.
17th - Madrid --> Barcelona
18th - 20th Barcelona.

The reason we are finishing in Barcelona is that we can get a cheap flight home out of Barcelona. We are still planning to train in between cities, but probably do overnighters wherever possible. Does anybody know when the train timetables are available for January next year? The reason I ask is because if we can work out when the overnighters run, we may be able to change our plans slightly before anything is booked.

[herrbert]

For the route between Madrid and Barcelona, I am not sure if you are going to find an overnight train anymore. This route now has a fast train taking you from Madrid-Atocha to Barcelona-Sants in 2h 45m. For normal tickets it is an expensive ride (around 100 euro), I am not sure if it works better with a railpass. A lot of people there for still take the plane to get from Madrid to Barcelona, as it works out a lot cheaper.

But I don't think coming to Madrid for 1 day is worth the trouble and the money. I would take an extra day in Paris or Barcelona, and skip Madrid.

[monty1104]

If we were to take a day off Berlin, would it be worthwhile doing Madrid for 2 days, or would you still skip it all together?

[herrbert]

2 full days is just enough for Madrid, and if you can have an early flight on the day of arrival, and late one out, you could earn 2 half days, so in total 3 days. that would be enough time, so see something.

It would only be hard to find time to make a daytrip to either Toledo or Segovia.

[monty1104]

Honestly, I think it is a bit rushed anyway. The problem I have is that I am travelling in a group of 8, which means that there are disagreements over where everyone wants to go. I would like to see Madrid, but there are so many other placed id rather see, so if it were up to me, I would skip Madrid all together. Comparing Madrid to, Berlin for example (which is another contentious city on out trip) which would be more worthwhile seeing from an all round perspective, ie. museums, sightseeing, history and day trips?

[WillTravel]

I think all eight of you do not have to be together all the time. If one person wants Madrid, and one person wants Berlin, then you could separate for that part.

[herrbert]

Comparing Berlin and Madrid, is tough, and because I live in one of them, I think I am not that objective in my judgement, but if you want to compare:

Art Museums:
In Madrid, you have the Prado, Reina Sofia and the Thyssen. There are also other museums, but these are the most famous ones.

In Berlin, you can't miss the Pergamon museum. I also like the Altes (old) museum. If you like to know more about the holocaust the Jewish museum is worth a visit.

Berlin's recent history is an interesting one, but so is the history of Madrid, but it's only less known. If you want that reflected in monuments and buildings. I would give it a 50%-50%. If you like old buildings, you have more opportunity to find these in Madrid, as it hasn't been demaged that hard in the Civil War, as opposed to Berlin in WWII. For a look into the middle ages, trips to Toledo and Segovia are very worthwhile. (in Segovia you have a beautiful Roman aquaduct.) If you think of Berlin you have the famous buildings like the Reichtag, Brandenburger Tor and the TV-tower.

For me nightlife in Madrid overall is better (and hardly surpassed anywhere I guess). Berlin has it's spots as well. The weather in January is most likely to be in favour of Madrid (although it is cold during the nights, and it can be during the day.)

I agree with WillTravel, it is hard to keep 8 people happy, so you could choose to meet up in Barcelona, for a few days and the flight home. I think that with 4 bigger cities or 5 including some smaller ones, the trip will go more smoothly than with 6, as you find that you might be running out of time, before you want to leave the city.