Backpacking Europe for the first time

[paddlebum]

My brother and i are planning on backpacking through Europe Mid March- Mid May 2010

Ireland- 5 Days (Dublin, Cork, etc)

UK- 1 Week (London, Bath, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Wales)

France- 5 days (Paris, need more ideas for france Bordeaux?, Burgandy?, want to stay in the northern part)

Belgium- 2 Days(not sure where to go in belgium)

Amsterdam- 2 Days

Germany- 1 week(Berlin, Munich, but would also see a lot more of the country that most people dont see any ideas?)

CZ- 2/3 Days(Prague...)

Switzerland- 2 Days(skiing in the alps, Zurich)

Italy- 1.5 weeks(Rome, Florence, Venice, Pompeii)

Spain/Portugal- 1.5-2 weeks time money permitting(madrid, barcelona, granada, sevilla (day trips) lisbosa would like to find some good surf maybe)

That is just a basic overview as of right now we still have a lot more planning especially on the lagistics side. Just curious about what we should do about transportation between b/t (ireland,england) (england, paris) (rome,barcelona). We plan on buying a eurailpass any input would be great.

[herrbert]

Hi Paddlebum.

As you already say you have a lot of planning to do. I just want to point out, that if you really want to see the places you are planning to go, you need a bit more time in most of them. Also think about the route. In March the weather is Spain/Italy can be really nice, but in the more Northern parts of you initerary, spring will come a little bit later.

Also think about the skiing. Around mid-March the season is coming to an end, so you would need to do that almost upon arrival. Next to that you have the risk (I know it won't happen to you ... famous last words) but skiing is a sport with higher risks (check you travel insurance for coverage), so it would be something I would not wanted to do in the middle of a 2 months trip. (besides that Switzerland is expensive + skiing is expensive, so imagine the combination.)

For time:

Ireland:
5 days is good for visiting Dublin and Cork, although there is some travelling involved. (other option: Belfast or the ring of Kerry.)

UK:
1 week will never cover the UK. London alone needs 4 days. Bath can be a daytrip (although I believe prefer some people stay the night there.)

If you go up North, visiting only Edinburgh seems like a waste, as there is the whole of Scotland in the backyard. But it will take time to see it. Glasgow, Sterling and Loch Lomond, are pretty near and for sure worth a visit. Fort William and the Isle of Skye would take longer but are nicer (esp. Skye)

For Liverpool I would reckon another 2-3 days, and for Wales it depends on what you were planning to see.

France:
4-5 days are OK for Paris. So with the time you are planning now, there will not be a lot of time to see more. (tips for France I will leave to the others.)

Belgium:
2 days would be nice for Brugge.

NL:
Amsterdam - 2 days, if these are 2 whole days (3 nights), it will be enough to see the highlights.

Germany
again 4 days in Berlin, 3 in Munich, would be all there is time for with the current time you alocated. Germany has a lot, so I would be good to know what you are looking for. Hamburg would be a good city, but a smaller town like Rotherburg ob der Tauber can also be a good stop, it you like to see the countryside. The Eifel region is beautiful, and so are the German Alps. So choices enough.

CZ:
Prague 2-3 days, I would make it 3 days. If you go by train. other place to look into is Krumlow Cesky south of Prague.

Switzerland:
If you go for the mountains, on this website we almost always prefer Gimmelwald. Austria is a lot cheaper for us travellers, and will have a lot of the same things to offer. To go to Switzerland fro 2 days, seems a waste of time for me. (If you are planning it after Munich, you need time to get there, where it is usualy easier to take the train from there to Innsbruck (same scenery), and then continue to Venice. (in the daytime!!)

Italy
Rome 4 days, + daytrip to Pompeii = 5. Florence and Venice can be 2 or 3 days, depending on the interests.

Spain:
Madrid 4 days, with a trip to Toledo, and if possible to Segovia, Barcelona 3 days, Granada 2-3 days, Sevilla , 2-3 days (but add extra days for the daytrips), and Lisbon 3 days. As you can see when counting the days, you are already more in the region of 2,5 weeks. For surfing you need to be in the South, and preferably on the Atlantic coast. You can check Lagos, or some places in that region (Algarve.)

Always wait with buying a railpass, until you know your initerary. (check railsaver.com for advice.)

For the specific questions, I would check some cheap airlines for the flights between Ireland and England (depending on from where to where you'll fly. (check Ryanair/Aer Lingus, but there are also some smaller airlines with destinations to smaller airports in the UK and Ireland). For Italy - Spain, check Vueling/Clickair/Iberia.

For England (as in London) to Paris i would suggest buying a non-flexible ticket for the Eurostar. If you have to get to Paris from other places, again check for Budget flights. (only this time skip Ryanair, as they will take you to Beauvais airport instead of one of the two big airports in Paris (Orly or CDG)

Also for going to Granada in this setup, it can be worthwhile to check flights instead of trains. (you could go: Barcelona - flight to Granada - train to Sevilla - bus to Lagos - train to Madrid (maybe with a stop in Caceres)

[madamtrashheap]

paddlebum welcome to the Boards!

Just a few notes on your current itinerary:

As has already been noted, you may find that whilst 8 weeks seems like a lot of time, you might have to alter the time you've allotted for some places in order to experience them properly and not just rush through things.

Are you flying from home directly to Dublin? And are you planning on using an open-jaw ticket so you can fly out of your final European destination rather than have to return to your first point for a flight? If you hadn't got that far in planning yet, then perhaps consider an open-jaw ticket so you can get the most out of your time in Europe. And as far as order of your itinerary, is this what you were thinking of (in terms of country order)?

Ireland- depending on how you plan to travel between cities in Ireland, you could spend 2 full days in Dublin, go down to Cork for 1 night then up to Galway for 2 nights (1 full day is better than none at all as it's a good University town and is surrounded by great scenery) before returning to Dublin to fly to say Edinburgh (look at Aer Lingus) and go from there.

UK - If you start in Edinburgh (fly in from Dublin) you can work your way towards London. There are ferry services from Dublin to Holyhead (in Wales) and then you could either go north to Liverpool or east to London, but although the fast ferry takes only 1hr30mins to Holyhead, you'll spend travel time getting up to Liverpool (2hr30 by train) or to London (4hrs by train). I know you listed Wales as part of your itinerary, but you haven't named any towns/cities/sights - did you have anywhere specific in mind?

For Liverpool, 1 full day will do if you're going for a Beatles experience and a little of the city, but you'll need 2 if you want to explore the art and nightlife scene as well.

For London 4 full days would be a good start, of course that depend on what you want to see and do and what your budget is.

Bath can be done as a day trip from London (including Stonehenge), but is also good for an overnight stay.

Edinburgh deserves 2 full days, and as you haven't listed any more of Scotland on your list you could add a third day and take a (long) day trip up to the highland (Loch Ness, Glencoe, Whisky Trail, Loch Lomond, etc) so you can experience them too. This is, of course, an alternative if you can't add more time to the Scotland portion and at least lets you see more than Edinburgh. If you're a golf nut, St Andrews is just over an hour north by bus from Edinburgh.

If you do fly to Edinburgh and work your way down to London, you could consider stopping in York or even the Lakes District (eg Ambleside) for a night or two as they are both great places to visit.

Travel from London to Paris - take the Eurostar and book as far ahead (3 months ought to do it) as you can for good prices. Great trip, centre of one city to the centre of the other so not messing around with airport transfers and only takes 2hr30 (I used to go to Paris from London for lunch as a day trip, just because I could! ;D)

France- Paris needs 4 days minimum if you want to explore the city (museums, sights, cafes, etc). There are lots of other places in France, but you'll need more time to see even one more place other than Paris. If you want to go to Bordeaux, know that it's a fair way south west of Paris and that some of the vineyards won't be open for visits at that time of year. Burgundy is a little closer (eg Lyon, Macon, Beaune) so consider visiting these places instead, either overnight or for a day trip from Paris. Lyon is great for food, Macon is small but has great wines and Beaune is a pretty medieval town with wine galore and good food.

Belgium- If you only have 2 days and it's your first time to Belgium, I'd suggest either Brugge/Bruges for scenery and good chocolate, beer and fries or Brussels for historical sights, beer, fries, mussels and waffles. Depending on the final order in which you travel, and so you get the best of both worlds, you could leave (for example) Paris in the morning, take the Thalys (fast service train) to Brussels in just over an hour (trains run twice every hour throughout the day), have lunch there and a few hours to see the Grand'Place, Mannekin Pis, etc, before continuing on to Brugge by train (it's just under 1hr) to stay for 2 nights.

Amsterdam- 2 full days for the Damage will be fine. Consider flying from here to Berlin if that's your order of travel.

Germany- Berlin needs 3-4 full days to even scratch the surface and there's plenty to do by day and by night. Munich needs 3 full days if you plan to take a day trip to the castles and also visit Dachau. Again, there are lots of places to see in Germany, so as a start I'd suggest you consider travelling Berlin-Prague by train and have a stop for a few hours in Dresden as it's on the way and is well worth a few hours of wandering.

Czech Republic- Prague needs 3 full days and as noted, you could consider trips to Kutna Hora (day), Cesky Krumlov (overnight), Plsen (on the way to Munich).

Switzerland- as mentioned, Gimmelwald is a favourite on these Boards, but I also like Lauterbrunnen which is down the valley from Gimmelwald and has access to Mürren, Jungfrau, etc. It's all gorgeous in that part of the world, so you can't go wrong. Just make sure you set aside at least 2 full days wherever you end up. Skiing at the end of March-early April is right at the end of the season so by the time you get to the region don't plan on absolutely doing it. There will be snow higher up, but depending on the latest fall at that time, you might find it's getting a bit slushy or icy.

Italy- You've listed the big three with a side trip to Pompei (will be a full day trip from Rome), so these could be all done in 10-11 days, but you won't have time for anywhere else. If that's your plan, then that's cool, but if you want to do some side trips then you'll need 2wks (eg half day trip to Pisa from Florence, day/overnight to Siena, etc).

Spain/Portugal- I'd suggest flying from Rome to Barcelona (check Iberia Air) to get you started then travel around from there and perhaps end in Madrid so you can fly home from here. herrbert is the Spain expert, so follow his suggestions.

If you could do a little adding up of optimum number of days to spend in cities you want to see, you'll have a better idea of what's possible in this timeframe and then be able to swap and change accordingly until you come up with your preferred itinerary. Happy planning!

[paddlebum]

Hey thanks for all of you input that helped a lot. The itinerary was in order from country to country we planned to go to but that could be changed we have quite a bit of time until we head out. Would you recomend starting in spain and doing the reverse of what i had first posted to try to avoid some of the harsh weather up north? Also you recommended taking flights between some of countries is airfare from country to country fairly reasonable or would train or bus be a lot cheaper?

[madamtrashheap]

paddlebum, until you work out the exact cities in each country you plan to visit, it will be difficult to make exact recommendations for the best form of transport in each instance. There are plenty of budget flights within Europe that are available, so once you've worked out the exact cities it will be easier to recommend flight/train/bus in terms of distance and cost factors.

herrbert's suggestion of starting in Spain and working north is a good one if you're not a fan of cooler Spring weather so the order of travel is easily reversed.

[paddlebum]

Ya thats what i figured thanks for all of the input it helped out a lot!