Excited but overwhelmed!!!! PLEASE help

[nmadrid]

I am a 26 year old female planning a 3 week trip to Europe in May with my mom. I am excited, but am affraid the overwhelming nature of the planning is taking away some of that excitement Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. As an overview, our main goal is to enjoy the essence of the places we visit. We are not hugely into "touristy" kind of places/travel. Yet since this will be the first time for us both, it's kind of hard for us not to visit the "typicals" London, Paris, Rome etc. As I see it, for a first time, I feel we should go to the main cities and save the smaller towns for a second trip. What are your thoughts?? We have approximately 21 days and our interests are:
France: Paris
Italy: Rome, Venice/Florence??, A must for us in Italy is Cinque Terre
Germany: Heidelburg (we have a friend we will be staying with there, and anticipate doing small day trips around to the places they suggest???
England: London
Spain: Madrid, because that is our last name and I can't see myself visiting Europe and not seeing MADRID
I am not sure at this point if these are too many cities for a 21 day trip, and if we are even choosing the best cities for our interests.

After reading your message boards we have talked about getting an open jaw ticket in/out of London/Madrid so as not to backtrack. However, some are saying Madrid is too out of the way etc. We are these for between $600-$800. Would you say that is a good deal? And what is with the deals from British airways etc. where you can get airfare and two nights stay in London for approx. $350?? Are these deals legit?

Lastly, I keep hearing differing opinions regarding taking the train vs. plane to each city. Is there a general good rule of thumb as to which would be cheaper? or do we need to try out our itinerary each way (flying/by train)?

THANK YOU in advance for your help

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome to GFE, nmadrid.

It's good to see that you've already been looking through the Boards to get an idea of how to plan you trip, and no doubt you've seen our references to travel order (of cities), transport options and what is able to be seen in certain amounts of time. With that in mind, I have a few questions:
1. where are you traveling from?
2. what are you interests - any specific ones, or any other "must-sees" on your list other than CT and Madrid?

You're wise to consider visiting "the big ones" the first time around, particularly if they interest you. That way you get to see some major cities, get a feel for travel and also have an idea of countries you might like to explore further on your next trip - once you're bitten, you don't stop planning the next trip! ;D

As far as transport options go, your time is limited so you'll need to look at the quickest options between cities. The best options will depend on your final order of visiting each place. An open jaw ticket would be great if you can get a goo deal, and there are a few around at the moment as airlines want to keep people travelling.

It's a pretty standard list of places to visit, so getting around isn't too much of a problem, except for the Heidelberg part as it's likely you'll have to take an overnight train from either France or Italy. To get you started:

arrive London - 3-4 days
Eurostar London - Paris (book in advance for good deals - 1-3months in advance is recommended)
Paris - 4 days
fly Paris to Madrid (check Vueling or EasyJet, avoid Ryanair; fly from CDG - Charles de Gaulle or ORY - Orly Airport)
Madrid - 4 days (incl. day trip)
fly Madrid to Rome (check Vueling and EasyJet again for direct flights to Fiumicino or Ciampino airports)
Rome - 3 days
train to Cinque Terre - take the IC train Rome to La Spezia if you want to get straight there (will take around 4hrs), otherwise if you feel like making a day of it, you could stop in Pisa for a few hours and then continue on to CT via La Spezia.
CT - 2 days
CT - Heidelberg: there are a few ways to do this:
1. train back to Florence (will take around 2h45 all up starting in CT) and fly from there to Frankfurt (check Lufthansa) then take the short train ride from Frankfurt to Heidelberg. I'm not suggesting the obvious Ryanair flight from Pisa to Frankfurt Hahn as Hahn is quite out of the way and won't be any good unless your friends feel like a drive to pick you up. If they do, then take that route instead.
2. overnight train La Spezia - Heidelberg (one leaves La Spezia at 18.26 and gets to Heidelberg at 10.45 the next morning, with only two changes, the "worst" of which is Munich at 6.30am)
Heidelberg - depending on how long you want to stay with your friends, I've allocated 4 days. You many need to adjust other destinations if you want to stay longer.
train to Frankfurt, stay overnight if flight in morning or before 2pm (just to make sure there are not hiccups).
fly out Frankfurt

That's just a rough start, and as you can see you'll have to leave Florence and Venice out this time (hmm, perhaps the next trip can be all about Italy and Spain!). Have a play with the above and perhaps the other Members will have suggestions too once you have a better idea of the cities and a travel direction.

Happy planning!

[Eagle]

nmadrid, I'd like to "second" the welcome offered by MTH! I have a few comments to add as well.

Your feeling of being "overwhelmed" will no doubt be replaced by "excitement" as your plans fall into place and the day of departure nears. The regulars here will probably be saying "oh no, not again", but as usual I would highly recommend reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door, as it will provide you with a lot of information on things like Itinerary planning, money issues, rail skills, and lots of other helpful tips for travelling in Europe.

As MTH mentioned, it would help to know where you'll be flying from? The availability of flights from your area might have a bearing on the order of cities in your Itinerary? I definitely agree with MTH in that London would be a good place to start. Not only will it be less of a "culture shock" for your first stop in Europe, but there are also LOTS of flights available to London. One tip though, I'd suggest choosing Gatwick as the arrival airport, as it's smaller than Heathrow. From there you could take the Gatwick Express to reach London Victoria station (30 minutes and as I recall about £15 each - buy your tickets on board if you don't want to stop at the ticket booths in the airport). One caveat though, travel in the U.K. is expensive!

Have you decided which of the five villages you want to stay in the Cinque Terre? The group here will be able to offer tips and suggestions once we have some further information.

I'm sure herrbert will be along shortly to offer some suggestions on things to see and do in Madrid.

You could also visit Heidelberg after Paris, as it's a fairly short rail trip. If your friends are willing to drive you to Frankfurt Main airport, it's less than an hour if using Motorways (you might offer to pay the tolls for them, if required).

Three weeks is not a long time for travel in Europe, so it will be important to plan your transportation links carefully, so as to minimize travel times between cities.

Good luck with your planning!

[herrbert]

Feb 22, 2009 23:34:58 GMT -5 Eagle said:

nmadrid,
I'm sure herrbert will be along shortly to offer some suggestions on things to see and do in Madrid.

Ta-Dah!

May is the most perfect time to visit Madrid, and the surrounding towns.

If you have been reading the boards, you'll probably have read most of the comments I'll usualy make about Madrid, and I can imagine that with Madrid as a surname (how cool!) you'll probably have done some research yourself. So I don't know if you have some questions, but if you have, I'll try to answer them.

When you take a plane to Madrid, you'll be fine, there are a number of cheap flights available, and you'll be here in a 2, maximum 2,5 hour flight, from the places you listed. Together with the travel to and from the airport, waiting at check-in, it will take you about 5-6 hours, which is a pretty normal travelling day. (I am sure most of us, will have longer days, trying to get somewhere.)

There is no general rule, but if a trainride takes longer than 4-5 hours, I start to look for flights. It will depend on which airlines are flying to which airport, competition etc, if it is possible to find a good deal.

If your plan turns out to include a flight from Germany, also check Lufthansa, they have special offers they call Betterfly, which can work out pretty cheap, as these prices have check-in luggage included, as where the budgetairlines, now tries to fool us with prices, without the check-in luggage. (you can for 20-30 euro extra take check-in luggage with these airlines.)

[nmadrid]

Hey everyone!! THANK YOU for all of your help!!!!! it has been a while since I have posted, but a lot of work has been done and things are more final. I did take many of your tips and advice and this is what we have come up with.
Leave Charlotte, NC
London 4 days
Paris 3 days
Germany 4 days
The Alps 2 days
Cinque Terre 3 days
Rome 4 days
Back to Charlotte, NC
Many people have said that the 4-5 day rule for major european cities may be too much however, we have decided to take it a bit slower so we can really enjoy the people and the culture of each country and not run around traveling all the time. Also, we have talked a lot about possibly doing day trips to the "countryside" off the beaten path of these major cities. So if we find we don't need to be in the city that long we have a day where we can explore what the country has to offer outside the city. Any suggestions for great places to visit (easy to get to by train preferably)as day trips would be great. In addition, we originally had 4 days planned for Paris, but after speaking to others, many said that was too much. We shaved a day off of Paris and now have that one to play around with. Are there any other suggestions about where to place that day? Add to any of the other cities? or possibly a fun day trip to another Italian city (preferably countryside) that may be on our way to places?

Our main flights are now booked, so no worries there, we just need to finalize the itinerary in europe so we can start to work on transportation between places and room/board.

What do you think???

p.s. The anxiety has since resolved and this is turning out to be fabulous and fun to plan! THANK YOU AGAIN!

[herrbert]

Hey nMadrid, welcome back,

first question obviously is: what happened with Madrid? (my lovely city)

The duration of the stay in cities is always depending on your interests. If you like culture and history, than in most cases the bigger cities is where to find it. If you like art, than you will know that visiting a museum, takes up a large part of the day.

If you would go to the British Museum in London, it is very easy to go there, only seeing the highlights, and leave 4 hours later. I think you'll be surprised how fast time goes in these cities.

If you state Germany on your initerary, followed by the Alps, it seems logical to go for the southern part of Germany. You could easily do 3 days in Munich (daytrip to the Castles) and maybe the forth day in a less logical/off the beaten track town. (Nördlingen, or Landshut?) It would be tempting to go to Salzburg for the 2 days, but I am not too sure about the connection Salzburg - Cinque Terre (but if you like the idea, you have the spare day to use as a traveling day - with probably some great scenery on the way.) Maybe a better option would be Innsbruck. This also means you are really in the middle of the Alps, where Salzburg is more on the edge of the really high mountains.

If you don't need the spare day, I would keep it as a daytrip to Pompeii, or as a quick visit to Florence. (maybe don't see everything, but it might be enough to convince you to go back one day.)