A couple's first trip to Western Europe - May

[niravd]

Hi all,

We are planning our first trip to Europe in May 2009. We plan to spend 14 days and need your help in seeing if the cities that we have planned are the right ones or not. Here's our plan,

1. Arrive in London from Seattle on Saturday morning(May 2nd) and spend 2 days in London. - 2 days
2. Leave for Paris on Monday early morning and spend Monday and Tuesday in Paris. - 2 days
3. Leave for Rome and spend 2 days in Rome
4. Leave for Venice and spend 2 days in Venice
5. Leave for Switzerland and spend 4 days in Switzerland.
6. Leave for London and spend a day in London and fly back to Seattle.

This is a very initial draft. As of now we have no idea how we are planning to travel in between the cities as well as have no idea when is the right time/way to travel.

Do these cities look good. Should we be spending more time in one place compared to another. Are the number of days right? I am really confused and will appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance,
Nirav

[Eagle]

niravd, welcome to the Boards! I have a few comments on your proposed Itinerary.

To begin with you may want to delete your duplicate Post from the Itinerary section, as it makes it a bit difficult to keep track of the replies. Your questions are more appropriate for the "Pre Travel Planning" section at the moment. When you have a better idea of your Itinerary, you can always re-post in the other section.

My first suggestion would be to use open jaw flights, so that you don't have to use part of your valuable travel time and money to return to London. Especially for such a short trip, efficient planning is important! For example, you could begin your trip in London and fly home via Rome.

Given a trip of only 14-days, I would probably drop one city from your list. In addition to allowing for travel time between cities, adding some time in each place would be highly desirable. You won't be able to really appreciate each city or see many sights if you're only staying two days. With the cities you listed, I'd probably drop Venice as it doesn't fit into an efficient travel route too well. If I were planning a similar trip, I'd probably arrange it like along these lines:

- Fly to London (3 days) It would be preferable to arrive at London Gatwick airport, as it's smaller and easier to get around than Heathrow. Take the Gatwick Express to London Victoria station (about £15 and a 30-minute trip). From London Victoria it's easy to get just about anywhere via the Tube (or you could choose a Hotel in that area - it's easy walking distance to many of the popular sights).

> EuroStar to Paris (plan for about a half day for travel). This departs from the newly renovated London St. Pancras station, so you'll need to allow enough time to get there via "the Tube" from whichever part of London you're staying. Allow a bit of extra time as you'll have to pass through airport-style security before boarding the EuroStar.

- Paris (3 days). If you're planning on visiting any of the Museums, a Paris Museum Pass would be a really good idea, as you'll be able to minimize queue's. Check www.parismuseumpass.com/en/home.php for details (the two day version would probably be best).

> Train to Switzerland (allow at least 6 hours for the trip). Which area of Switzerland did you have in mind? I note that you've allotted four days there, rather than two - is there a reason for that? I have some recommendations if you're interested.

- Switzerland (3 days)

> Train to Rome (again, allow at least 6 hours for the trip)

- Rome (3 days)

> Fly home from Roma Fiumicino

Given the short time frame, you'll need to plan your transportation, lodgings and touring in each city very precisely, so that you don't waste ANY time. I'm sure the group here will be able to offer more specific suggestions when you have a definite list of cities.

May is not far off, so you'll need to get the details sorted fairly quickly. I'd highly recommend that you have a look at the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door, as it provides a lot of information on travelling in Europe.

Congratulations and happy travels!

[niravd]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. Sorry about the duplicate post. I have deleted it. I have read Europe through the Backdoor 2009 book.

The reason I want to come back to London is because I am flying to India from London. I have a friend back in London so my plan is to leave my bags with her and then travel to other countries in Europe.

I can extend my stay in Europe by a couple more days. If I do that which cities do you recommend spending more time. From what I read in the forums it looks like I should spend 3 days in Rome. Also some posts recommend going to Florence. Should I go to Florence instead of Venice and how much time do you recommend spending over there.

Also you mentioned traveling by train. Considering that I am going only for a short period of time, should I take flights for traveling between some cities? If I go by train should I buy the tickets before hand or I should be able to get them when I arrive at the city.

Sorry, I know I am all over the place. Please help and thanks again.

[niravd]

Eagle or any of the experienced members, can you help me out with my previous questions? Many thanks in advance.

[Eagle]

niravd, if you are able to extend your trip by a few days, that would certainly help, as you'll need to provide some time for travel between cities.

Florence would probably be a better choice under the circumstances, as it will be an easier fit into the Itinerary. You didn't indicate what type of sights you're interested in seeing in each location, so it's difficult to suggest how many days to spend there. Three days would allow you to visit the Uffizi and the Accademia and have a brief look at some of the major sights in the city.

I usually recommend at least five days for Rome, as there are so many historical sights to see in the city. However if you plan your touring well, three days should suffice.

You didn't provide any further clarification on why you've allotted four days in Switzerland? Which area of Switzerland are you interested in seeing?

I suggested travelling by train, as that's normally the fastest and easiest method to get between cities in Europe, provided that the travel time is less than 6-8 hours. As you may have noted from reading Europe Through The Back Door, some trains require compulsory reservations, and it's important to pay make sure you have those if required. Especially in Italy, you can be fined on the spot for not having a reservation!

Regarding buying rail tickets, I usually buy the tickets for my outgoing journey when I arrive in each city (very easy since I'm at the rail station anyway). If you buy Point-to-Point tickets, these will include reservation fees if required. If you're using a Rail Pass, you'll have to pay the reservation fees separately.

It's difficult to provide specific transportation suggestions until you have a somewhat definite Itinerary worked out. However, here are a few suggestions to consider:

- London to Paris: Use the EuroStar from London St. Pancras to Paris Gare du Nord. Use the Tube / Metro in both cities to get to the area that your Hotel is located in.

- Paris to Switzerland: Rail would probably be at least as quick as a budget flight if you travel via TGV, but it would help to know where you'll be going in Switzerland?

- Switzerland to Florence: again, rail would probably be a fast as budget air, but without a specific city in Switzerland, it's difficult to say.

- Florence to Rome: that trip is most definitely better by rail, as the trip is only about 1H:40M by EuroStar Italia or other fast train.

- Rome to London: for that section, budget air is easily the best choice. You could consider flying to London Gatwick via EasyJet (which is the method I'd choose), or to London Stansted via Germanwings - Air Berlin. To get from Roma Termini station to Fiumicino Airport, use the Leonardo Express (about €11, 30-minute trip). To get from London Gatwick to London Victoria station, use the Gatwick Express (about £15, 30-minute trip).

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[niravd]

Eagle, you are awesome. Thanks a lot again for all the information.

I usually like to see scenic places while my wife likes to visit historic sights and museums. I am hoping that Switzerland will have more of the scenic places while Paris and Italy will offer other things that my wife will enjoy.

We haven't narrowed down the exact places to visit in Switzerland. We are mainly interested in scenic places. Can you recommend us any places or itinerary for Switzerland? We will be going to Switzerland from Paris as you suggested. Some of the places that we are considering are Swiss Alps, Jungfrau, Lucerne, Interlaken, Gimmelwald(from Rick's book) and Zermatt . We definitely want to take the Glacier express. We wanted to cover Switzerland almost completely in this trip and that's why we plan to spend 4 days there. We are still not sure where to start our journey in Swiss and where to end it.

For our trip do you recommend us point to point tickets or should I buy the Euro-rail select pass for 3 countries - 5 day select pass(Italy, Switzerland and France). I am assuming we will still have to pay for separate tickets when we travel within a country and the Euro-rail pass wont work. What would you do if you had an itinerary similar to ours ?

I think with your help our plan is getting more solidified. Thanks a bunch again. GFE is wonderful. I don't know how would I have planned my trip without the help of GFE.

[niravd]

I researched more on the Glacier express and seems like it is not worth it. 7 1/2 hours is just way too long. So we will mostly skip that. For Switzerland I have narrowed down to Zurich, Lucerne, Interlaken and possibly Zermatt. Do you think that's a good list of cities for 4-days?

Also I am still confused about the point to point pass and the euro-rail pass. Looks like the Euro-rail pass will not cover Switzerland completely so we might need a separate Swiss pass for that. Any recommendations on which one is better?