need some advice

[davidhsamson3]

Hey everyone. This website and everyone's info has been very helpful so far. I am planning a 2-3 month trip to europe beginning around the middle of september.

Is this considered the off-season?

From my research it seems like I will encounter a wide range of weather. Do I need to prebook my hostels for the first leg of the trip or can I just wing it. Which cities do I need to fly to and from? Here are the destinations I am planning on visiting. Any other recommendations are greatly appreciated. I am up for places that are off the beaten (tourist) path and also would enjoy some areas where I can do some adventure sports. This is my first extended trip to europe and I will be traveling solo.

I plan on traveling destinations in this order (this is my first itinerary and I know adjustments will have to be made - I'm not sure I can fit all of this in 2-3 months):

Netherlands - Amsterdam
Belgium - Brugge (any other cities I should see?)
France - Paris, Nice (anywhere else?)
Spain - Barcelona, Madrid (would like to be near the beach - any recommendations for less tourist spots)
Portugal - lisbon, lagos
Switzerland - (not sure where to go?)
Italy - milan, venice, genova, portofino, rome,
Sicily - (not sure where yet)
Greece - tripoli, athens, santorini ( would like to be on/near the beach)
Czech Rep. - Prague
Sweden - (not sure where yet)
Denmark -
Scotland - Aberdeen, Perth, Glascow
Ireland - belfast, dublin or galway
Great Britain - Mancehster, London
Fly back to amsterdam - back to Dallas,TX

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome to GFE, davidhsamson3.

Good to see you've been perusing the Boards for help in planning your trip. No doubt you've read some recent Posts about pre-bookig accommodation, and this still applies to September as it's not quite the off-season. In fact, the "season" is getting later in Europe and extending all the way to the end of October. There are quite a few Autumn/Fall festivals to be had in Europe, and these are popular with locals and visitors, so I'd suggest that you book your accommodation ahead of time if you want to stay in specific hostels and stick to your budget. This will apply particularly to the first part of your trip as it's still busy then.

As it will be getting cooler in the north of Europe, you would be wise to reschedule your itinerary to visit all of those places first (eg move Italy, Spain and Portugal to the end). Is there a reason you have cities in the order you do? (ie events, friends to visit?). And a point about Greece - Athens is "open" all year round, but the islands close down in September and it gets very windy and cool, so if you were planning a beach trip to Santorin, you'd be disappointed at that time of year. Perhaps leave it out for the next trip and include a few more islands (Mykonos, Naxos, Paros) at the same time.

If you haven't booked your ticket already, look at an open-jaw from Dallas to AMS, then out from, say Madrid back to Dallas. If the cost is still within your range, it would save backtracking and let you make the most of your time.

To address your list of destinations:

Netherlands- Amsterdam for 2 full days, unless you want to do day trips (Den Haag, Groningen..)
Belgium - Brugge/Bruges is a good choice, also spend a day or at least a lunch in Brussels, plus if you base yourself in Brugge you could do a day trip to the WWI battlefields if that interests you.
France - Paris for 4-5 full days, again depending on your interests. Nice at that time of year won't be super-warm, but you could still sneak time in on a pebbly beach if that's what you want. Otherwise, look at smaller villages like Beaune or even Avignon if you want somewhere a little different.
Spain - herrbert is our resident expert here, however to get things started I'd suggest Barcelona for 3 days and Madrid for 4 days (this will allow for day trips). Madrid isn't near a beach, in fact it's a very long walk so if you're wanting beaches, and again the Autumn weather can be fickle (and if you move Spain to the end of your trip then it won't be beach weather at all), look at Costa Blanca (south of Valencia) or even along the Andalucian coast as it will still be warmish (the Costa del Sol is on the southern end of Spain and is super touristy, but super beachy, so it's a trade off). A lot of people like the Costa Almeria as it's not too developed, particularly the eastern part. As far as "less tourist spots"...hard when that's why people go there!
Portugal - again, there are others who have more information than me on this country, but Lisbon and Lagos are good choices, both of which would need 2 full days.
Switzerland - if you're looking for adventure sports, then Interlaken is your spot. You could also stay further up the mountains in Lauterbrunnen or Gimmelwald as they have stunning scenery and also offer paraglinding, mountain biking, etc.
Italy - skip Milan and Genova and instead of Portofino, look at one of the villages in Cinque Terre. There's nothing wrong with Portofino, but the CT are pretty and offer a range of different villages to stay in. Of course, it's your choice, but don't overlook CT (plus you can visit Genoa for a few hours from here) as it's not as busy in Autumn. Just watch the storms at that time of year, particularly in the afternoon/evening. Rome will need 4 full days (5 if you plan a long day trip to Pompei) and Venice 1-2 full days. You haven't listed Florence, which is worth a visit if you want to see the museums and all things Renaissance, otherwise stay in Siena for 2 days as you'll have a smaller town will a country feel. There are lots of smaller places in Italy to visit, but very few are "off the beaten path" anymore. Lake Como, Lake Garda, towns in Tuscany and Umbria, plus towns in Puglia. Sicily- (which is still part of Italy!) IMHO needs 10 days to explore the island. But, depending on what you want to see, you could spend 5 days on the island and stick mainly to the east coast (Catania, Siracusa, Taormina).
Greece - see above on the islands. Athens for 2-3 days (depending on how much sightseeing you plan) would be fine, plus time in the Peleponnese (Tripoli) would be good for a few days, again depending on what you want to see. You'll cross the Corinth Canal on your way from Greece, so include that in your list.
Czech Republic - Prague for 3 full days is a good start, plus you could always do a trip out to Kutna Hora for a day if you're interested.
Sweden - what places were you considering?
Denmark - as above?
Scotland - Aberdeen doesn't have much going on (I know, my brother used to live there!), and same for Perth. But the surrounding areas are interesting enough, plus if you're tracing family history then they may be applicable. Glasgow is good for a day or two (depending on your interests) and you should consider Edinburgh (you could visit Stirling and even Falkirk Wheel on your way from Edinburgh to the east coast or Highlands, depending on your decision).
Ireland - why not all three cities? You could travel to Belfast, on to Galway, then back to Dublin and then fly to your next destination from there. Belfast for one full day (unless you're visiting the Giant's Causeway), Galway for 2 if you want to spend time in the Connemara and Dublin for 2 full days.
UK - Manchester for 1-2 days (depending on your interests or reason for visiting - football? family?) and London for 3-4 days (again, depending on your interests, but that's a good amount of time for LDN). Are you considering anywhere else in England? I ask because depending on how your reschedule the order of your itinerary, you could visit places like York or the Lakes District on your way to/from Scotland.

You haven't listed Germany at all - is there a reason why? Look at Berlin and Munich as a minimum. Even though they are larger cities, they definitely warrant visiting, just be aware of Oktoberfest in Munich in the last 2 weeks of September and 1st week of October - accommodation is already booking out.

Once you've looked at the suggested cities, and the other Members have given there suggestions, you will have an idea of what is possible in the time you have to travel. Also look at a mix of flights, trains and busses for your travel, depending on the route you choose.

Happy planning!

[herrbert]

I believe that he means Barcelona, Madrid, and after that somewhere with a beach.

Barcelon already has a beach, so you can visit the beach there already. For some warmer weather you should go to the south in autumn, and for less touristic you could go to south. It's always a bit of a trade-off if you want to go to the beach. You don't want touristic, but that also often means less facilities (less rooms, less bars etc.) If you really like less touristic check out some places near Almuñecar. (on the map you'll find it between Alemeria and Malaga, and south of Granada.

If you head south, than take advantage of it, and also visit at least Granada (alhambra) and Sevilla (Alcazar, Cathedral, Flamengo)

There also is another possibility, and that is doing the opposite, and head north, and go to the "green" Spain. The coastline there is rockier, and the weather might become a problem if you go too late in the year (but it still beats English beaches). San Sebastian is a popular destination in Basque country, but I would go to Gallicia if you want less touristy. (but the beach here is rockier, than in the San Sebastian area.) Vigo, La Coruña and Santiago de Compostela are good places in the this area. And the nice thing about Gallicia is that it is still cheap.

From Vigo, you can cross the border into Portugal (rewind you clock one hour!) and head for Lisbon, or make a stop in Porto first, head to Lagos from there, and take the bus to Sevilla. (if you take your time, you can travel a lot in Iberia if you want.)

-----

Non Spain:

Amsterdam: It's like the Madam, says without a daytrip 2-3 days is fine. If you are bored in Amsterdam on the last day, know that Haarlem is really near, and very worth seeing.

Brugge is nice, but you have Gent and Antwerpen nearby, and close to Brussels you have Leuven, all places that are nice to visit as well. Gent and Antwerpen (and if you are interested in the WWI, Ieper might be a good town aswell), can be done easily from Brugge as daytrips, and Leuven is a possible daytrip from Brussels.

For Scotland, I would choose Inverness, if you want to stay in that side of Scotland, but I would add at least Loch Lomond on the list (not too far from Glasgow - not cow), and if you have time head to the Isle of Skye. If you like nature, this is the place to go in Scotland, the scenery is very good. I would put it pretty early in the initerary. I would not like to go there in November.

I see you have Switzerland and Prague on your list. It might be a good idea to add Salzburg in the mix. From Salzburg you can connect to Prague pretty easily. And it is a town worth adding. (and in my opinion Vienna is aswell, but that's your choice.), if you are on time you can head from Salzburg to Werfen to see the ice caves of eisriesenwelt. (just check when their season is over.)

As it comes to Scandinavia, I am big fan of Finland, and prefer this country above Sweden, and for sure above Denmark. It is a bit out of the way, and the problem here is that a lot of sights are not opened anymore if you arrive late in the season. (Even at the beginning of September some sights only run on a minimal level.) For Sweden, Stockholm is a must, and in Stockholm the Vasa-Museum is a must. It's amazing. If you say Denmark you likely say Copenhagen, and although it is nice, for me it was really similar to the west of the Netherlands, so it wasn't that special for me. (also it houses two of the most overrated tourists sites ever: the little mermaid, and Nyhavn)

But probably the best thing to do would be to save Scandinavia for a future trip, and include Finland and Norway in the shedule as well, and then make it a trip in Summer, and also head north.

[davidhsamson3]

Thank you very much for the suggestions. Just to answer a few questions. The reason Germany and Austria are not on there; I have already been to germany (munich, nuremburg, few small villages) and Austria (salzburg, few small villages) during the world cup 06'. However, I have a friend joining me now and it looks like we will be visiting both Germany and Austria.

I have recently read about San Sebastian (spain) and would like to visit there. Thanks for the advice.

In regards to greece, I will definitely wait for another trip. I would like to see Athens, but may do greece (mainland and beaches) in one trip.

Thanks again for the advice and I will keep reading other posts for ideas.