Please Review My Six Week Western Europe Itenary

[danielscott]

Hi guys,

Found this messageboard today and it has taught me SO MUCH. It's fantastic!

Wanted to get your ideas on a preliminary trip itenary.

Here is the outline:

============

FLY TO LONDON

London (5 nights)

FLY

Amsterdam (3 nights)

TRAIN

Paris (5 nights)

FLY

Madrid (4 nights)

TRAIN

Barcelona (3 nights)

TRAIN

Nice (4 nights)

FLY

Rome (5 nights)

TRAIN

Florence (4 nights)

TRAIN

Venice (3 nights)

TRAIN

Vienna (3 nights)

TRAIN

Prague (4 nights)

FLY BACK TO AUSTRALIA

=================

That ends up being 44 nights all told... so a little over 6 weeks.

The first thing I'm wondering is - do you think the time I'm spending in each city is good? Should I shorten some? Do others need lengthening? I tried to pick up what I figured would be good from reading other people's critiques but I'm not sure if it's any good or not.

Your comments on this would be appreciated, as well as comments on whether you think the method of transportation is good. I don't want to spend more than a day on the train at any one time if possible, but if it's a lot cheaper than flying then I'll definitely take that option... basically whatever's cheaper is good, discomfort traveling is fine... I like the idea of the train though as you get to see the countryside, which is awesome.

I'm not going to be drinking, smoking or taking drugs... but I would definitely like to sample local cuisine (I'm a fan of food). Assuming that I pre-pay for my travel expenses and accomodation, does 50 EUD a day sound like a fair budget (for food, daily transportation costs and maybe the occasional jazz performance)? I can spend more, but just trying to get a good head-start here.

I'm planning to backpack and stay in hostels... in private one-person rooms, so I understand that I need to book ASAP.

Kind regards,

-Dan

P.S. Also, apart from the actual flights to and from Europe, I was planning to pretty much book the train travel "as I go" (as in when I get into the city, I book my ticket to the next town... so 3 - 5 days in advance). Does this sound like a workable plan?

P.P.S. I'm planning on going mid to late June

[WillTravel]

You are right that private rooms in hostels, particularly good hostels, tend to go quickly. You may find, though, that some hotels have cheaper prices than hostels, particularly for single rooms.

For local transport, I'd budget 5 Euros per day, and more if you take a taxi occasionally (which you may want to do if going to late-night performances).

For each musical performance, I'd count on spending 15-30 Euros once cover charge, food charges, etc. are considered. (Some places may be less, or have a different setup, but I am just trying to estimate roughly here.)

If you want to go to a reasonable number of museums and maybe use the audioguides, I'd budget 15-20 Euros per day for that.

It's hard to get a sitdown restaurant meal for less than 15-20 Euros, especially at dinner, although it's certainly possible to get cheaper food.

50 Euros plus accommodation and non-local transport will allow you to do a fair bit, but if you want to take advantage of several culinary, musical, and museum options per day, you'll probably want more.

[herrbert]

For the days, I think I would swap a day between Florence and Vienna. (one more in Vienna, one less in Florence.) But for the rest it seems a very doable initerary. The train from Barcelona to Nice takes pretty long, but I think you have enough time alocated to Nice, to cover the time you spend on the trip.

The cheapest way to travel between Madrid and Barcelona is by bus. The trainconnection is now carried out by one of these highspeed trains, that are pretty expensive. (I think I recall a ticket price of a 100 euros for a one way ticket.)

To get cheap deals on flights you need to book in advance. In general: the further you book in advance, the cheaper the flight. If you leave this june, it might become difficult to find good deals.

[madamtrashheap]

danielscott, welcome to the Boards.

A few points to add to the information from WT and herrbert:

• Do you have any day trips planned from any of the cities on your list? If so, where?
  
• Consider a flight from Barcelona to Nice (check Iberia and Vueling) instead of the very long day train (no night train)
  
• I would keep your 4 nights in Florence (esp. if you're into food or plan to visit any towns in the region - San Gimignano, Siena, etc) and also add a day to Vienna as suggested
  
• Have you considered a Monuments & Museum Pass for Paris? It will save you money if you plan to go to many sights and museums. Also look at the ones on offer for Vienna and Rome. And for Florence, I'd suggest booking the Uffizi and Accademia ahead of time so you don't stand in line all day waiting to buy a ticket. Check www.firenzemusei.it/index.html for info.
  
• Booking trains "as you go" will work if you plan ahead enough and if you take into consideration the day on which you will travel along with the type of trains you need to take. That is, those on which a reservation is compulsory (Eurostar, TGV, Thalys, Intercity, etc) and if you are travelling on a Friday afternoon or Sunday (or public holiday).
  
• Which airline, or rather airport, are you planning on using from LDN to AMS? I ask because there are 5 airports in London and some are easier/cheaper to get to than others.
  
• Avoid flying with Ryanair if you can - you don't want to have to pay extra if you checked bag is over 15kg, plus the airports they use are often miles out of the city to which you're travelling and transport can cost additional € plus take time.
  

Other than that, I think you're on your way to a great trip, but don't delay on sorting the final itinerary as you'll need to book your accommodation ASAP. Despite the downturn in global travel, people are still travelling and more are looking for cheaper accommmodation options than usual.

Happy planning!

[danielscott]

Hey all,

Thanks for your tips.

Regarding Madam Trashheap's Q's:

I am considering a few day trips. In particular, From Nice to Cannes, Vienna to Salzburg, and Florence to Piza. I figure if I want to check out nearby villages/towns in any other destination I can just get on a bus/train and do it.

Regarding which train/plane I'm going to take, haven't really figured that one out yet. I have a travel agent working on it, though

I also haven't planned an itenary in each city yet... I figure if I can get the acommodation booked ASAP, then I can take my time filling in the details... but I know accomodation is filling up fast so I need to move my ass.

Kind regards,

-Dan

[danielscott]

Oh, and regarding the Train to Nice - I did consider flying, but I thought the train might be a nice way to see the countryside. Maybe it's not worth it though?

-Dan

[madamtrashheap]

danielscott, for the day trips you've listed:

Nice to Cannes - there is an express train that takes around 30mins, so that's easily doable one day
Vienna to Salzburg - this could be a long day trip, the train takes between 2.5 and 3hrs one way. Have you considered staying in Salzburg overnight or even adding Munich to your list (you could include a day trip to the castles - eg Neuschwanstein - if you stay in Munich)?
Florence to Piza - Pisa is only 1hr by train from Florence, so I'd recommend a half-day trip. The train station in Pisa is a 30min stroll to the Tower, or there is an orange bus that leaves from outside the station that drops just near the Tower and Field of Miracles. Depending on your interests, you likely won't need more than a morning in Pisa, plus there's a good gelato shop just opposite the Tower! If you plan to climb it, notet that you need to book ahead for a ticket (getting one on the day in the middle of Summer just won't happen) and a visit time and they aren't cheap (Euro17 each for around 30mins). Also look at the other towns I suggested in my Post above.

Some other day trips you could consider are:
Amsterdam - look at places like Den Haag (the Hague), Groningen or even Edam/Volendam.
Madrid - Toledo or Segovia
Rome - Pompei. This will be a long day trip, but worth it if you want to visit the site adn spend time under Vesuvius' shadow.
Prague - Kutna Hora is good for a day trip, Cesky Krumlov is also worth a visit, but might be better as an overnight trip
London - depending on what you already have planned for London, consider a trip to either (not all as you won't see the city if you spend your time travelling) Oxford, Bath and Stonehenge (an organised coach trip might work better in your time frame) or Leeds Castle (oddly enough, nowhere near Leeds!).

You don't need to plan your individual city itineraries before you book your accommodation. If you know you want to spend, for example, 3 nights in Venice, then you can work out the dates you'll be there to book your hostel/accommodation. And I would recommend the flight rather than train from Barca to Nice - whilst it's always good to see the countryside, the journey is just under 12 hours so that's a whole day of travel out of your schedule. Up to you, but I'd be booking that flight!

[WillTravel]

I think if a train journey is more than 6-7 hours, I'd book a flight instead. Look for cheap flights that fit your itinerary at www.whichbudget.com . There may be exceptions, but travel agents don't generally help out customers with budget flights on European low-cost carriers.

[danielscott]

Hey guys,

Thanks for your advice.

I just checked flights from London to Amsterdam, and HOLY CRAP they are cheap! I'm talking like 25 EUR!!!

In Australia that's $50... you are pretty much unable to get flights that cheap.

Regarding the train, do you think it's worth getting a Eurail pass? I could get, for example, a 4 country one (France, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic) good for 10 days in 2 months for 350 EUR, but I'm not sure if it's worth it, or if I'm better just to pay for the trains that I actually take.

What do you guys think?

Also, is there a way to get a rough estimate of how long I'll be spending on the train between two points? I had a look on the Eurail website but couldn't seem to find the timetables... can anyone help me out here?

Kind regards,

-Dan

[WillTravel]

If you see a cheap flight that works for you, I'd buy it. The reason is that these cheap fares typically don't last.

Go to bahn.de and figure out your routing. Although it's the German train site, it has most of Europe's trains on it in terms of timetables.

[madamtrashheap]

If the flight suits, go for it. That's one of the joys of budget airlines in Europe - cheap flights! Which airport and airline is the flight form/with?

As for the railpass, AFAIK the Czech Republic isn't included in any rail pass as you need to purchase train tickets seperately (you can do that at the start of your journey) for CZ. Have a look at the Deutsche Bahn site (click on the EN symbol at the top) WT suggested so you know how long each train journey is. Alternatively, for the Italian portion of your trip you can look directly at www.trenitalia.it (again, click the EN symbol to translate).

EDIT: Apparently CZ has now been included in the Eurail pass for 2009 - good news!