My "dream" itinerary. Please HELP!! (UPDATED)

[WillTravel]

Allsf, it's hard for me to say. The touristy parts of Italy are pretty expensive, but there are cheap parts of Italy. However, I think you can safely say Spain and Portugal will be cheaper compared to Italy.

Hard for me to say for Krakow and Budapest, as I haven't been there, but I suspect the prices are probably roughly comparable to Spain and Portugal.

[allsf]

thank you all again for all the precious advise and help I've found here. that's exactly what I was hoping for here.. valuable advise from real travelers, which can go way beyond guide books..

after carefully reading lots of the wonderful tips on this board, doing some more research and given my itinerary some more thought, a quick update about my plans. I agree that my itinerary still looks a bit "too commercial".. but some places I've just got to come back to.. like Paris, Amsterdam, Rome and Madrid.. I was in Europe almost 20 years ago so I really feel like this is my first time..

* I'm skipping Dublin and Edinburgh.. I am sure Ireland and Scotland are lovely beyond those two cities and perhaps I can come back in the future and explore them better..

* still not sure about Vienna.. which should problem means a no..

* I'll take some advises and skip 5Terre altogether.. I guess if I had to choose between 5Terre and the Amalfi Coast, Sorrento, Naples, etc.. I'd pick the later..

* although I've always wanted to go to the Greek islands - again, I am sure they are worth a trip on their own.. I'd happily change that part of the itinerary for another beach break somewhere in the middle of my trip.. I am a sucker for sunny beaches and would love a CHEAP yet beautiful place to rest up for a few days.. someone suggested Croatia.. I've never heard anything about that country though.. any more/other suggestions? or any guesstimates of what it would cost about a week in the Greek Islands?

I don't necessarily want to do the guide book suggested itineraries.. but I am humble enough to say that lots of wonderful places I am missing just for lack of information.. I know.. shame on me, eh?! like I am sure the whole South Italy is stunning.. or some of the Eastern cities.. Sofia.. or Istanbul - almost cried removing it from my original itinerary.. but isn't it too far away from all the crazy traveling I am already doing?!..

with all that said.. I am very much open to suggestions of places beyond the big cities.. note that I am only doing a few cities up in the North since money IS a consideration and I'd much rather stretch it in two weeks worth of exploring and fun than 4 or 5 days in one place.. which brings me to another question.. London.. to go or not to go?? honestly, I didn't love London the time I went there.. so I've wanted to go back and give it another try.. though I know it's very expensive.. particularly early August.. do I just skip it and start my trip out of Paris, Amsterdam or Frankfurt (I am flying over seas with miles and am pretty sure I could fly into one of those places - just need to decide quick before booking my flight)? I definitely want to do Amsterdam and Paris..

I guess let's say a better thought of and more realistic itinerary would be..

SFO to London on 08/05 - arrive London 08/06 - 2pm
?London - 4 or 5 nights - fly or train to
Paris - 5 or 6 nights - day trips to Versailles or Mont San Michel or Strasbourg or Dijon?? from here trains or flights? whichever cheaper/more reasonable to..
Amsterdam - 4 nights - day trip to Brussels
Berlin - 4 nights
Prague - 4 nights
Krakow - 3 nights? - day trip to Auschwitz
Budapest - 3 nights?
?Vienna - 4 nights - day trip to Bratislava
Venice - 2 nights
?Florence - 2 nights
Rome - 4 nights
Amalfi Coast/ Sorrento/ Naples/ Capri - 5 or 6 nights? - fly to
?Greek Islands - 6 nights - or some other sunny retreat/ vacation of vacation - fly to
Barcelona - 3 nights
Madrid - 4 nights
Sevilla - 2 nights
Lisbon - 4 nights
Lisbon to SFO on Tuesday 10/20 @ 11:30am

I've freed about a week.. so I am open to suggestions..

God bless you all!

[WillTravel]

For London, are there particular things you want to see there? I think for anglophone people, we often like to start in the UK because it's comfortable to begin our trips in a place where we feel culturally at home and are speaking our native language. But given you aren't an anglophone, you probably don't have the same sense of connection.

I have heard very good things about Croatia, but I think it's not as cheap as it was. Spain and Portugal have popular beach areas for sure.

I know it's hard to take stuff out of one's itinerary. But it will just leave you dreaming about your next trip!

[herrbert]

Why not sure about Vienna?
I have to say it´s one of my favourites.

[allsf]

hello everybody,
a quick update on my plans..

since the beginning I've been torn in between a planned trip and a 'go with the flow' one.. I am starting my trip early August and my three first stops are probably the most expensive towns I'll be visiting this time around.. so since I am trying to be mindful of my budget, I thought I'd follow some suggestions and make some reservations ahead of time... sort of 'do what I've gotta do' in those cities and follow my heart from there..

I arrive in London on Aug 6. I've got a not-so-cheap-hostel - L$20/night - close to Victoria Station for 5 nights.. then, train to Paris on Aug 11.. I've just booked a cheap? - E$30/night - hotel in Les Halles, apparently, right in the middle of prostitutes and sex shops...

I am planning on being in Paris for 6 nights.. then got to Amsterdam.. if it all works out that way, it seems like I'd be in Amsterdam on Monday, Aug 17.. so here are a few questions I'd like some input..

* is 6 full days enough for Paris? I could do a day trip to Versailles and Strasbourg or Dijon.. any other better suggestions?

* should I make reservations for Amsterdam (train from Paris and accommodations) now? I've been told that's a tough town to get a last minute cheap room in.. is 4 nights enough for Amsterdam? too much? perhaps a day trip to Den Haag or Groningen? any other thoughts?

* it looks like I'll arrive in Amsterdam on a Monday.. and I think I'd rather spend a weekend there.. any suggestions of a great place to visit for a few days between Paris and Amsterdam?? Bruges.. Brussels.. Antwerp.. Rotterdam perhaps?? I hear Brussels is quite boring though..

the updated itinerary bellow is a rough plan for the places I'd like to go to during this trip - * those are the cities I DO wanna go to!.. I am not on a race though, so I'll try not to be disappointed if I can't get to see all that during the 2 1/2-3 months I'm planning on traveling.. I know it all looks a bit city-centric right now but I'm trying to learn about lovely-great-not to miss small towns along the way..

SFO to London on 08/05 - arrive London 08/06 - 2pm
London - 5 nights - train to
*Paris - 6 nights - day trips to Versailles or Strasbourg or Dijon?? - train to
*Amsterdam - 4 nights - day trip to Brussels or Den Haag or Groningen
Berlin - 4 nights
*Prague - 4 nights - day trip to Cesky Krumlov or Kutna Hora
Krakow - 3 nights? - day trip to Auschwitz
Budapest - 3 nights?
?Vienna - 4 nights - day trip to Bratislava
?Ljubljana - 3 nights?
?Zagreb/Spit - 4 nights?
Venice - 2 nights
?Florence - 2 nights
*Rome - 4 nights
?Amalfi Coast/ Sorrento/ Naples/ Capri - 5 or 6 nights? - fly to
?Greek Islands - 6 nights - or some other sunny retreat/ vacation of vacation - fly to
Barcelona - 3 nights
*Madrid - 4 nights
Sevilla - 2 nights
*Lisbon - 4 nights
Lisbon to SFO on Tuesday 10/20 @ 11:30am


as always, I look forward to your valuable comments/ suggestions/ critiques..
ciao-

[WillTravel]

Antwerp is great, between Paris and Amsterdam. I think it would be easy to spend two days there. I haven't been to Ghent, Brugge, or Brussels (except for the train station), but they could all easily take a night at least, I'm sure.

[herrbert]

I think Brussels can only be a daytrip from Amsterdam if you do it by Thalys, which is expensive. (unless you can find cheap tickets ... WT do your magic. )

Den Haag or even closer to A´dam: Haarlem are good choices. I think that 2 complete days are OK for Amsterdam, so a daytrip would certainly be possible.

On the way from Paris to Amsterdam, you could easily add a few days in Belgium. All these places are close to eachoter, and are also not too big.

If you are already in Sevilla, I would suggest to go to Granada, to see the Alhmabra. If you want to spend some days on the beach, Sitges near to Barcelona, could be a good option for you.

If you go by train from Madrid to Lisbon, I would make a stop in Caceres to check out the old town. If you leave early in the morning, you should have a couple of hours to check out the town, before heading further to Lisbon. (you could of course also stay there.) check: www.travellerspoint.com/guide/Old_Town_of_Cáceres/ (I hope this link is not seen as spam, it´s something I wrote for another travel website.)

[WillTravel]

Jul 20, 2009 7:06:45 GMT -5 herrbert said:

I think Brussels can only be a daytrip from Amsterdam if you do it by Thalys, which is expensive. (unless you can find cheap tickets ... WT do your magic. )

Den Haag or even closer to A´dam: Haarlem are good choices. I think that 2 complete days are OK for Amsterdam, so a daytrip would certainly be possible.

On the way from Paris to Amsterdam, you could easily add a few days in Belgium. All these places are close to eachoter, and are also not too big.

Here is one cheap ticket deal, but it's probably not exactly what you want. But sign up for Thalys emails anyway, and if you are willing to commit to a particular day and time, you can often buy a cheap ticket weeks or months in advance (about 3 months gives you the best chance, but deals are available from time to time after that)
www.thalys.com/de/de/freizeitreisen-und-angebote/zeitlich-begrenzte-angebote/red-day-juli-2009/comfort2?xtor=EPR-827

At any rate, I totally agree with den Haag and Haarlem. I'm also a fan of Leiden. It would be easy to stay in den Haag, and spend one day there, one day in Leiden, one day in Rotterdam, and one day in Delft (all done as easy daytrips) if you were up to it.

[WillTravel]

Jul 20, 2009 7:06:45 GMT -5 herrbert said:

www.travellerspoint.com/guide/Old_Town_of_Cáceres/ (I hope this link is not seen as spam, it´s something I wrote for another travel website.)

I don't see it as spam. It's very interesting!

[allsf]

UPDATE!!

first of all, thanks will and herrbert once again for your amazing tips and suggestions..

I've decided to go ahead and book a hotel in Amsterdam just to be safe.. I might rethink this and choose for a day or too in Rotterdam on my way from Paris before I buy my train ticket.. - is it worth it?? for how long?.. how about as a day trip from Amsterdam?? - .. or I might just go straight from Paris to Amsterdam.. I'll be already coming from a weekend in London and one in Paris.. so it will be a nice break in a beautiful city to get some rest.. let me see what you guys suggest..

a few quick updates about my trip.. sort of where I am right now with it..

- got plane ticket SFO/London - Lisbon/SFO - www.united.com
- reserved hostel for 5 nights in London.. L$20/night - www.gayhostel.co.uk
- bought eurostar ticket London/Paris - L$51 - www.eurostar.com
- reserved hotel for 6 nights in Paris.. E$30/night - appihotel.com/
- reserved hotel for 4 nights in Amsterdam.. E$35/night - rembrandtsquarehotel.com/

now I am gonna start looking for train tickets to go from Paris to Amsterdam.. I think I should make a decision about Rotterdam first.. also, not sure wether I want to book train and accommodation for Berlin just yet or wait till I get to Amsterdam.. and just go with the flow from there.. it'll still be August though... should I be concerned about missing all the best deals for transportation and accommodation??

thanks!!

[WillTravel]

With booking ahead, you may get a 25-Euro deal between Paris and Amsterdam (or between Paris and Rotterdam) that you certainly would not get if you bought at the station. I think the price then is 70 Euros. Check voyages-sncf.com and www.tgv-europe.com . I always use the French-language site at voyages-sncf.com and choose self-print tickets. I have not used the TGV site personally.
For Amsterdam to Berlin, by booking ahead you may get a 39-Euro deal. Check www.bahn.de to see what the normal price is for this ticket, and to see if you can get a deal.

I think the Rembrandt Square area is perfect for Amsterdam. I have stayed around there three times. Your Paris hotel was recommended by a young woman traveler (pointofnoreturn, who I have not seen posting for a while) and she was okay with the area, so I am sure it will be fine for a guy.

Your London hostel location is fine too.

Berlin usually has lots of good-priced accommodation, unless there is a fair or convention. Check www.hrs.de and www.hotelscombined.com and the hostels sites for cheap private rooms.

[allsf]

will,

thanks for the reply
I've been doing a lot of research on that Paris-Amsterdam ticket and it seems like the best fare is a 6:25am train for E$52.. other later times for E$70..

very pricey!!!
any suggestions/ alternatives??

[WillTravel]

I think I answered that train question on another thread.
I saw this site which might help you out in Berlin: www.gaybed.de

[herrbert]

Rotterdam can be done as a daytrip from Rotterdam, and if you want a nice little city to get away from the busy cities like London and Paris, I would suggest to not go to Rotterdam, but choose one of the smaller cities. like Haarlem or Delft. Den Haag and Utrecht are the third and fourth biggest cities in the Netherlands, but are more pleasant places to see, and it is a bit more quiet. Both are easy to get to, by train. (You can even get back to Amsterdam during the night.)

[allsf]

Will,
thanks for that accommodation link.. I've found this one that's pretty good too.. if you want to keep for future references.. www.ebab.de

herrbert,
I've been wondering about Rotterdam.. though someone told me that would be the only place that would not look like San Francisco.. whatever that means.. I'll read some on the cities you mentioned and try to explore the area more.. though I've booked a hotel for Amsterdam, I am not buying train tickets yet and I checked and I could move my booking around.. may I decide to change my route a bit..

the more I think about what you guys said about my whole itinerary being too city-centered, the more I feel like it would be interesting and fun to explore other places besides the big cities.. I just haven't had the chance to do much research and see what these places would be..

so, as always, I am open to your wonderful suggestions..
cheers-
;D