7 month rough itinerary - I know you're jealous ;)

[cruella]

So when I originally decided to go to Europe for an extended period of time, I thought I might just try to be a more relaxed about the whole thing and wing it. I've since come to admit that I am a control freak, and I can only loosen my grip on having things planned out so much. So I've done lots of reading on websites and travel guides and come up with a rough idea of the places I want to go and what order I should see them in. I am using the idea of having a base location and doing day trips to see surrounding areas. And definitely trying to take a slower pace and spend more than a couple days in each place. Plan is to leave at the end of March 2010. Without further ado, here is my plan (this is like the 8th revision

France
Nice - 7 days (with day trips to Cannes, Antibes, Monte Carlo and Grasse)
Aix-en Provence - 3 days (with day trip to Avignon/St Remy)
Montpellier - 5 days (with day trips to Carcassone, Nimes and Arles)
Paris - 7 days (with day trip to Versailles)
Bayuex - 5 days (with day trips to Caen, Mont St-Michel and D-Day tour)
Rouen - 2 days (day trip to Dieppe)
Arras - 2 days (day trip to Vimy Ridge)

Belgium
Ypres - 2 days
FLEX - 3 days (maybe spend them in Brugges?)

Netherlands
Amsterdam - 7 days (this is fixed, I will likely be meeting a friend here, I will be here for Queen's day, day trips to Zaanse Chans, Delft/The Hague/Haarlem and Keukenhuf)

Germany
Cologne - 3 days (day trip to Bonn)
Frankfurt - 4 days (day trip to Wisenfeld, where my grandma grew up)
Heidleburg - 3 days
Stuttgart - 3 days (day trip to Strasbourg)

Switzerland
Geneva - 5 days incl travel day (Staying with family, day trips to Lauzanne, Montreux)
Bern - 1/2 day (stop on route to next city)
Interlaken - 4 days (day trip to Gimmelwald)
Lucerne - 3 days (day trip to Mount Pilatus)

Germany
Munich - 6 days (day trip to Dachau, Neuschwanstein Castle)
Nurnberg - 5 days (day trips to kronach, ansbach, where my grandpa grew up)
Berlin - 6 days (day trip to Potsdam)
FLEX - 4 days until my 90 day limit is up

England
Bristol - 3 days

Wales
Cardiff - 4 days (day trip to Castle coch, caerphilly Castle)
Heart of Wales Train Line - 3 days from Swansea to Shrewsbury (stopping off at small towns along the way)
Cambrian Train Line - 3 days from Shrewsbury to Conwy (stopping at small towns on the way)
Conwy - 5 days

Ireland
Dublin - 4 days
Kilkenny - 2 days
Shamrocker tour - 7 days
Cork - 4 days
Killarney - 3 days
FLEX - 2 days to work around the tour schedule

England
Liverpool - 3 days
Blackpool - 2 days
Lakes district - 5 days

Scotland
Glasgow - 5 days
Edinburgh - 4 days
Haggis tour - 7 days
Aberdeen - 4 days
FLEX - 2 days to work around the tour schedule

England
York - 5 days
Leeds - 3 days
Oxford - 4 days (day trip to Stratford upon Avon)
Bath - 2 days
Glasontbury - 2 days
Salisbury - 5 days (day trip to Avebury and Stonehenge)
London - 7 days

Italy
Rome - 5 days (day trip to Vatican city)
Sorrento - 6 days (day trips to pompeii, amalfi, capri and vesuvius)
Sienna - 4 days
Florence - 4 days
Lucca - 2 days
Cinque Terre - 7 days
Verona - 2 days
Venice - 2 days (day trip to Padua)

Austria
Graz - 3 days
Vienna - 4 days
Salzburg - 4 days
Innsbruck - 3 days


Phew! So I guess first, in general does this look like a good itinerary? Picking the right cities as home bases, times in each city, etc?

I have budgeted approx $6500 CAD for transportation costs (flight over there, inter europe flights, rail passes) and approx $120 CAD (~80 euro) per day in food, loding, entry fees, etc. I am probably over budgeting, but that means I will have money to maybe go handgliding in Switzerland or maybe go skiing in Austria!) I am planning to book my accomodations on the road, about 2 weeks in advance, prob more during the summer.

Specific questions now:
Provence, France - does anyone have any better suggestions of bases of operations to see all the places I have listed? Maybe stayling in Arles to see Avignon/Aix en Provence and Montpellier to see the rest?

Frankfurt/Berlin - do you think 4/6 days is too much in those cities? I don't want to be rushing around, but don't want to be bored either.

Poland - I really really wanted to squeeze Poland in somewhere, but it looked like I could maybe only spare a week to see Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw. Is it snowing in Poland by November? I was thinking of going at the end of the trip if I still have money, but if it's cold then I will have to buy winter clothes.

UK/Ireland - I will end up here during the summer months. I know it's going to be busy, but it's the only way I could make my timing work with the Schengen requirements. I was thinking about making bookings 3-4 weeks in advance as I move around, to keep some flexibility, but also so that I will never have to arrive and look for somewhere to stay. Has anyone else done this?

Italy/Austria - What is the weather like, Italy in October and Austria beginning of November? Am I going to have to buy myself a winter jacket by that time?

I still need to do more in depth reading about each city and perhaps make a list of the interesting things to see in each place. You should have seen my original itinerary, I think I've cut it down by about half since I first started planning.

Comments, tips, hints, etc in relation to my trip plan would be very much appreciated, thanks!

[Eagle]

cruella,

Wow, that's an extensive Itinerary! It sounds like you've planned well around the requirements of the Schengen Visa.

What criteria did you use to pick each city? Are you using Guidebooks and if so, which ones? I have some comments on each of the locations you listed....

> Nice - while there be sure to visit the Chagall and Matisse Museums. That's a reasonably good base for visiting the other locations. Cannes probably doesn't need more than a day and you might also consider seeing Villefranche and Eze. I'm assuming your visit to Monte Carlo will include Monaco (which is actually more interesting in many ways - changing of the Guard is at 11:55 but you'll have to check to see if that will be the case at the time of year you'll be there - the Oceanographic Museum is incredible). Note that there's a dress code for the Casino (I was there in June).

> Provence - Arles would also be a good location. I haven't checked to determine which city has the better transportation links. If you have the opportunity, visiting the small town of Les Baux-de-Provence would be a good idea. The Roman Amphitheatre in Arles is where part of the movie Ronin was filmed.

tiny.cc/7pFnP

> Montpellier - Carcassone would definitely be a good trip, as it's very impressive! Be sure to try Cassoulet when you're there; it's a local specialty.

> Paris - I assume you'll be flying into Paris? It would be the logical place to start, as good availability of flights. I like the Rue Cler area (near the Eiffel Tower) as it's very convenient.

> Bayeux - is a wonderful smaller town! Be sure to see the famous Bayeux Tapestry. The War Museum in Caen is one of the most extensive in the area. Mont Saint Michel is a bit of a long trip from Bayeux, but one of the Hotels offers a day trip by Bus (a bit expensive though). The absolute BEST D-Day tours are offered by BattleBus (IMHO of course). They require tour members to stay in Bayeux the night prior to the tour, as they depart at 08:00 precisely! They're very popular so a good idea to reserve a seat. Their tours are a bit expensive, but WELL worth the cost especially as they last a full day. You'll have to decide whether the Canadian or U.S. highlights tour is more to your interest (of course, you could take both of them if you want).

> Ypres / Belgium - you seem to also have an interest in WW-I history. You'll have to let us know your experiences there, as I'm sure that would be of interest to others here.

> Germany - I don't have much info on Cologne, Frankfurt, Heidelberg or Stuttgart. Hopefully one of our other members can provide some tips on those. Four days for Frankfurt seems a bit long?

> Switzerland - You could also consider staying in Gimmelwald rather than Interlaken (which tends to be expensive). The Mountain Hostel there is legendary! There's good hiking in that area and also Paragliding, which you mentioned. Flights normally depart from just above Murren, which is the next village above Gimmelwald. The flight lasts about 20 minutes and is of course a "tandem" arrangement with a licensed Pilot. I've also seen Paragliders departing from the Schilthorn which is at the 10,000 foot level, and those were about an hour in length (but of course considerably more expensive).

> Germany - For day trips to Neuschwanstein or Dachau, you could also consider using www.radiustours.com/. They take care of the transportation and all the arrangements, and their Guides provide an interesting tour. Note that tours inside the Castle are provided only by the "official" Guides (no photos allowed inside the Castle but you can take photos looking outwards). I felt the cost of the day tour was good value. You might also visit the Deutsches Museum (over 16 kM of exhibits).

> England - I'm a bit curious on why you chose Bristol? York is an awesome city, and be sure to visit the impressive York Minster, the area known as "The Shambles" and the incredible Railway Museum. There's an HI Hostel located in a convenient area and close to the river (that's where I stayed on my last visit). There are good free walking tours offered at the T.I. which are very interesting.

Why did you choose Leeds? Not one of the "usual" spots.

Bath / Salisbury - I'd probably increase the time in Bath, rather than changing locations. You can take day trips from Bath to visit Stonehenge and Avebury. Have a look at www.madmax.abel.co.uk/ for details.

> Italy - one of my favourite topics! Your list looks reasonably good, but I'd suggest dropping at least one day from Siena and adding to Rome. Six days is a bit long for Sorrento but it's a beautiful city - you'll need to take the Circumvesuviana from Naples to Sorrento, as the "regular" trains don't go there. Be aware that Capri is expensive! Seven days for the Cinque Terre seems a bit much also. You might consider reducing that and spending a few days in Orvieto or other spots.

> Austria - I'd suggest reducing the time in Graz and Innsbruck, and trying to fit in a few days in Hallstatt. It's in the Salzkammergut not far from Salzburg, and is one of the most beautiful spots I've ever seen! The town itself is older than Rome. The Salt Mine tour is quite interesting and the view from Rudolfsturm (above town) is incredible!

tiny.cc/PSTW1

To answer some of your other questions, I've been in Italy in October and the evenings have been a bit cool but not unreasonable. Of course, there are never any guarantees with the weather. You might be fine by "layering" and not need to buy a winter jacket?

Are you travelling to each location in the order that you listed? You'll need to establish a logical order to minimize travel costs. Also, be sure to allow adequate travel time between locations.

One important point to note regarding Railpasses (which you can buy from this website BTW), is that these DON'T include reservation fees which are compulsory on some trains. You'll have to pay these separately. DON'T be caught on a train without a reservation if this is required, as you can be fined on the spot! You might find it helpful to download the free PDF Rail Guide at www.ricksteves.com/rail/railpdf.htm.

Your budget sounds reasonably good, but it's always a good idea to have some "reserves" if needed. I'd suggest taking at least two ATM cards and at least one credit card. NOTE that Europeans are rapidly switching to the new "Chip & PIN" credit cards, so if you can obtain one from your home bank before you leave, it would be a good idea.

You might consider a "mix" of Hostels and budget Hotels or B&B's for lodgings. I find that it's nice to have some privacy for at least part of the time, rather than "communal living" in Dorm rooms.

If this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend that you read www.amazon.ca/Rick-Steves-Europe-through-Back/dp/159880281X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255152478&sr=8-1 before you finallize your planning, as it will provide you with a LOT of good information. This is an essential "pre-read" prior to a first trip. You should be able to find it at larger Bookstores or perhaps your local Library.

Good luck with your planning!

[cruella]

Thanks for the extensive reply Eagle! The internet makes planning so much easier.

To answer some of your questions, I picked cities based on my pre-conceived idea of which European cities to visit, plus I read Let's Go Europe and a ton of different backpacking Europe websites. Rick Steeves Europe throught the back door is on my list as my next read. Obviously, I still want to research the cities a little more in depth to make sure (a) I really want to go there and (b) make sure the time allocated is the right amount.

The order that I listed is the order I plan on seeing everything in. Planning on flying into Nice, because suprisingly, it's the same price as flying into Paris for my itinerary. The order of the first 3 months seems a little wonky, but thats because I need to be in Amsterdam at a certain time and in Switzerland in a general time frame, so this is how it turned out. No backtracking really, just a really weird way of going about it I guess.

I chose Bristol for a couple reasons. First of all, I end up flying to England right in time for the Glastonbury Festival. I am going to attempt to get tickets in their second round of sales and Bristol is the perfect place to fly into. Secondly, it's just a different city than people would normally travel too. Same with Leeds.

I've been reading lots about railpasses and reservations. Does the reservation system work the same in England as it does on the mainland? When I've done searches to find travel time between cities, I've noticed that it is possible to take slower trains and not have to reserve. If it only adds an extra 30-60 minutes, then it might be worth the savings.

i can't believe how much planning goes into these trips!

[aussiechick007]

ah the UK... what has become my 2nd home this year! (don't feel very english though!)

why so long in glasgow? there's not much there! also yeah there's not much in bristol either.
maybe consider a daytrip to cambridge from oxford aswell? its nicer IMO! you should have plenty of time for that.
5 days in salisbury is not really needed I reckon... like said above, a daytrip from bath is possible to both.
also seeing as youre in england in the summer maybe you could do a daytrip from london to brighton... fish and chips on the beach!

in italy it may be better to do Lucca as a day trip from florence... I found that I got annoyed with moving around so much in that area of italy, seeing as the distances are all so short!

with those days in belgium do go to brugge, its a really pretty city (I've lost my photos of this though, so annoyed! )

in germany for the flex I hear Dresden is really nice... sadly I didn't get to go though due to being sick in Prague

about that last question about railpass reservations, no it doesn't work the same in england/UK, you'll find that eurail is not valid there. buying tickets in advance is the best option here... from www.thetrainline.com , or www.nationalexpress.com may have cheaper buses. also www.megabus.com on some routes, if you book in advance for this tickets start from £1!

ok there's my attempt at expertise for the night!!!

[WillTravel]

Couple thoughts (although I can't match the thorough answers you have gotten already):

* For Cologne, I would recommend a daytrip to Aachen or Dusseldorf before going to Bonn. But you may find that you have time for more than one daytrip, and Bonn is nice too. Someone who was speeding through stuff could theoretically do two daytrips in one day.

* I didn't figure out if you were visiting Scotland in the summer, but I would save it for summer definitely (and Ireland too if you can).

* I notice you have Vatican City as a daytrip. Although I guess it is in theory, in practice it's just another short bus ride or metro ride to a Rome attraction. Do consider booking a Vatican admission ticket ahead of time so you don't have to deal with the miserable lines.

* For Florence, you can also make reservations ahead of time for the Uffizi and Accademia, which I also recommend to avoid crazy lines.
www.uffizi.com/online-ticket-booking-uffizi-gallery.asp

* I recommend the Galleria Borghese in Rome. Again reserving ahead of time is important (and I think almost essential in this case): www.ticketeria.it/

* If you are in Amsterdam for Queen's Day, seriously consider booking accommodation *now*.