trip through europe-- needs some advice :)

[bvonro01]

Hi all!
I have never been to Europe and I'm planning to backpack either this Aug/Sept or 2011 Aug/Sept. I'm getting excited to trying to plan and work things out asap.

Here's what I'm thinking and if anyone can throw some advice in here or answer any of the questions I have, that'd be great

Fly into London (stay ~3 days.. any tips?)... these were the things I wanted to see in England: Lake District National Park, Buckinham Palace, Tower of London, Big Ben, Stonehenge... I'm interested in the touristy stuff, but I'm also easy going and want to relax a bit and party at night- i know not all of these are in LONDON, so if someone could provide feedback on these things and anything else i should check out!

Next fly to Amsterdam (unless another way is better?).. stay ~2.5 days??

Then Eurorail to Paris for 2.5 days(?? time and suggestions on things to see other then obvious?)

Then Eurorail to Madrid for 2.5 days (?? time and suggestions on things to see)

Then Eurorail to Barcelona for 2.5 days (?? time and suggestions on things to see)

Then Eurorail to Nice for 2 days (I NEED SOME BEACH!)

Then Eurorail to Venice for 2 days (?? time and suggestions on things to see)

Then Eurorail to Rome for 2.5-3 days

(as you can see i would go out of france to spain then back into france.. with a 5 country select eurorail ticket, could i do that? go in and out of the countries that i chose?)

Then off to greece.. This was my confusing part-- how to get to greece from rome and where to go.. i was thinking Athens, Mykonos and Santorini but how would I pull that off?

Then I would leave from greece (if flying out of athens is plausable).

Sorry this is long.. Just would love some advice and if hitting these cities in a different/more efficient route would be better, id love to hear it! THanks!!

[Eagle]

bvonro01,

Welcome to the Boards! I have a few comments on your proposed Itinerary.

To begin with, as this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door before you get too far in your planning. That will provide you with a lot of information to plan your trip and also to travel well in Europe.

Travel especially in August is not the best idea, as not only is that peak tourist season but especially in Italy many of the locals take their holidays at that time so some tourist facilties may be closed. While it can still be busy in the "shoulder seasons" (May/June or Sept./Oct.) the weather is usually not as hot and the crowds a bit more manageable. Especially for travel in August, I'd recommend pre-booking accommodations.

Some comments on each of the places you mentioned (listed in the same order):

> London: ~3 days is not going to be long enough to see the Lakes District (which is in the north), Buckingham Palace, Tower of London and Stonehenge (which is closer to Bath). You'll have to choose - either increase your time in England or drop some of the places. You could easily see Buckingham Palace, Tower of London and other London highlights in three days. Regarding Big Ben, there's not much to see. You can walk past it on your way across the Westminster Bridge if you plan on riding the BA London Eye. If you're able to add some time, you might consider spending 2-3 days in Bath, as it's an incredibly beautiful city with lots of history. From there you can take a day trip to Stonehenge, Avebury, Lacock and/or the Cotswolds. Have a look at www.madmax.abel.co.uk/ for the details.

>London to Amsterdam: You could either use the EuroStar from London St. Pancras to Gare du Nord, and then train to Amsterdam OR use one of the budget airlines (ie: EasyJet) from one of the London airports (Luton, Stanstead) to Amsterdam. If you decide to go by air, be sure to PACK LIGHT as most have very restrictive luggage limits and usually only ONE carry-on item is allowed. If you book early, using budget airline would probably be cheaper, but be sure to read their terms & conditons; often tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable.

> Amsterdam: 2.5 days is about right.

Just to clarify one point, Eurorail is a consortium of the European rail networks, set up primarily for marketing. You'll actually be using different rail networks, depending on country. From Amsterdam to Paris, you may be travelling with a combination of Thalys and TGV.

>Paris: 2.5 days is a bit SHORT for Paris. It's an incredible city with LOTS to see. I'd suggest at least four days and preferably five. A two-day Paris Museum Pass would be a good idea, especially at that time of year, as that will help to minimize queue's. Don't try and see all of the Louvre, as it's HUGE. You might limit yourself to the Denon wing (Mona Lisa), with perhaps a short visit to the Sully wing if you want to see the Venus di Milo.

> Madrid: Rail to Madrid would be a LONG trip. This is another leg where budget airline might be a good idea. EasyJet has flights from Paris CDG to Madrid MAD, and some of the flight I checked were listed at €32.99. However, you'll need to check again, closer to the time you'll be booking. Flight time is about 2H:10M, which is considerably shorter than a rail trip of 14H:08M.

>Barcelona: I'd suggest adding at least half a day. Hopefully herrbert will see your Post as he's the expert on Spain.

>Nice: If possible you might want to add a day or two here as well, as there's lots to see. There are some fantastic Museums in Nice (Chagall and Matisse as I recall) and you could also take an easy day trip to Monaco and Monte Carlo. There's an awesome Oceanographic Museum only a short distance from the Church where Princess Grace and Prince Rainier are interred. The Changing of the Guard outside the Royal Palace at Monaco is quite impressive (11:55 daily).

>Venice: Be sure to allow sufficient travel time from Nice to Venice, as that trip will be the better part of a full day. Two days is about right for Venice, but plan your touring carefully.

> Rome: It's an easy rail trip from Venice to Rome, especially if using the EuroStar Italia / Alta Velocita. However, "2.5-3 days" is NOT sufficient for Rome! It's an incredible city and I'd suggest at least five days if possible.

>Greece: Again, using budget airline from Rome to Athens would be the best method. Aegean Air flies that route and EasyJet MAY offer service during the summer months. Most people feel that two-three days is quite adequate for Athens. Getting to the islands is a bit more complicated, as you'll likely be travelling by Ferry. Travel in Greece is not as easy or quick as in other parts of Europe. At that time of year, it's going to be hot and crowded. I'd suggest having a look at www.greektravel.com/ for more specific information on travels in Greece.

> Rail Passes: One important point to note regarding Rail Passes is that these DO NOT include the reservation fees that are compulsory on some trains (usually the high speed trains such as the TGV in France). You'll have to pay these separately. DON'T get caught without a valid reservation (especially in Italy) as you'll be fined on the spot!

It's going to be VERY important to allow adequate travel times between cities, so be sure to include that in your plans.

You may want to take out a Hostel membership, as that will provide preferred booking and slightly better rates. Have a look at www.hihostels.com/dba/continent-EU.en.htm for the details.

If you have a PBS TV station in your area, you might find it interesting to watch www.ricksteves.com/tvr/tvr_menu.htm as it will give you an opportunity to see some of the places you'll be visiting, and perhaps get some additional ideas.

You didn't indicate where you're flying from, but it should be possible to use open-jaw flights and return from Athens.

Good luck with your planning!

[WillTravel]

I think that you will find that the rail pass does you little good here.
It doesn't save money for traveling in Italy, certainly not for the travel you have planned. It's best to just buy tickets as you go (or else prepurchase them online if you find a great deal).

The super-long train trip between Paris and Madrid would be better by budget airline.
For Madrid - Barcelona, you can likely buy a cheap rail fare on the web at www.renfe.es .

Rail passes are the traditional method for traveling in Europe, and they can be convenient in some cases, but they quite often are not the best use of funds and time.

[Libby]

I can only comment on England and 3 days doesn't even crack a small part of London. You can do Buckingham Palace, The Tower and Big Ben in a day sure. That's no problem but you'd be missing out on Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's, etc.

Stonehenge is a fair distance form London and will take a whole day. I know very few people who say it's worth it. The Lake District is a trip all on it's own.

I've spent over a month in the UK over the past few years and I've only seen a small bit of what that country has to offer.

[herrbert]

For Paris - Madrid, yes take the airplane. The trainride is way too long. But take notice that although Ryanair claims to fly Paris - Madrid, they use Beauvais airport, which is closer to Belgium than to Paris.

Besides Easyjet, you can check Vueling, and even Iberia.

For Madrid I would at least get another day to make one of the many possible daytrips (Toledo, Segovia, El Escorial) Depending on your tastes Madrid has different things to offer. For parties there is hardly a better place. For Madrid tips and sights you can look here: www.travellerspoint.com/guide/Madrid/ I've written most of it, so in case of questions just ask.

Barcelona has beach !!! And from what I understood Nice only has beached consisting of pebbles. So my guess is that Barcelona or one of the surrounding beach towns (like Sitges) would make a better choice, also with an eye on the travelling time between Barcelona and Nice, and after that Venice. Again a flight would make it much easier, and faster.

I would have a good look at your plans to use a railpass, as it might turn out not to be the best choice for this itinerary. (keep in mind that on many of the fast trains you need to pay a supplement for the reservation, and in case of an overnight train, your bed.)

[bvonro01]

Thanks so much for the help! I'll definately take these things and revamp my trip... AND then probably ask more again later when it gets closer to the trip. You guys are great

[bvonro01]

So I re-vamped my travel ideas after listening to everyone's tips.. my friend that i wanted to bring with me wouldnt be able to go in sept which is when i wanted to go.. so it looks like we'll be going mid july... i dont think that's the best time, but might be the only option-- i think we can make the most of it right??

so here are the thoughts now:

*London*- Arrive early AM day 1. there Day 2, Day 3, Day 4 leave AM for Amsterdam (either by flying or flight train
*Amsterdam*- Arrive afternoon Day 4. There day 5, Day 6, Day 7 AM leave for Paris (by rail)
*Paris*- Arrive afternoon Paris Day 7. There day 8, Day 9, Day 10, leave Afternoon Day 11 for Madrid (by air)
*Madrid*- Arrive late afternoon Day 11. There day 12, 13, 14. Day 15 leave AM for Barcelona by rail.
*Barcelona*- Arrive Afternoon Day 15. There Day 16, 17. Day 18 leave AM for Venice (By air took out NICE)
*Venice*- Arrive late afternoon Day 18. There Day 19, 20. Leave Day 21 early afternoon for Rome by rail
*Rome*- Arrive afternoon Day 21. There Day 22, 23, 24. Leave Day 25 afternoon for Athens by air
*Athens*- Arrive late evening in Athens Day 25. There day 26. Day 27 early- ferry to Mykonos. Day 28- AM/afternoon ferry back. Athens Day 28, Day 29.
Day 30- Fly to either NJ/NY airport and/or Chicago airport...

if you guys dont mind and have an opinon on the revamped thing... just the 2 questions on transportation from Barcelona to Venice AND the day trip to Mykonos..

Also- not including the flights to and from the USA--- is 3500$ enough? I didnt think so but my friend said thats all she might have so would it be possible? If not, ill let her down now

Thanks a bunch!!