2 Month European Excursion!

[laurenc418]

Hi,
My friend and I are traveling throughout Europe over the summer and I would love some advice on whether or not our time-table is possible or too ambitious.

Arrive 8 am June, 25th Brussels (2 days)
To Amsterdam (2 days)
From Amsterdam to Paris (2 days)
Paris to Madrid (2 days)
Madrid to Toledo (2 days)
Toledo to Barcelona (2 days)
Barcelona to Marseille (1 day)
Marseille to Nice (2 days)
Nice to Frankfurt. From Frankfurt we will be taking a tour of Switzerland, that runs from the 10th of July to the 13th. Then another tour that leaves on the night of the 13th and encompasses Prague and Vienna. The tour brings us back to Frankfurt on the night of the 16th.
A night of recooperation bringing us to July 17th
Frankfurt (2 days)
Frankfurt to Berlin (3 days)
Berlin to Munich (2 days)
Tour of Italy that consists of Verona, Venice, Florence, and San Marino, in the span of four days. We will be staying in Italy after the tour.
Ancona (2 days)
Ancona to Athens, either by plane or ferry than bus to athens, (1-2)
Athens to Delphi (1 day)
Delphi to Mykonos (2 days)
Flight to Naples (1 day--I'm a little worried about Naples because I heard that have a very bad crime rate, hence the short time)
Day trip to Pompeii (half day)
Pompeii to Rome (3 days)
Day trip to Vatican City (half day)
Vatican City to Pisa (1 day)
Pisa to Milan (1.5 days--Which brings us to August 13th)
Flight from Milan to London (2 days)
This part I could use some advice on deciding between Bristol or Manchester. The sights of Bristol have our interest but the vibe and culture of Manchester grabbed at us as well.
Bristol/or Manchester (2 days)
Off to Edinburgh (2 days)
Flight from Edinburgh to Shannon (1.5 days)
Shannon to Dublin (2 days)
Dublin-home!

Advice/sights we should look into/reality of this trip/what we could or should cut out? Anything and more would be amazing and wonderfully helpful!
Thank you so much!
Lauren

[Eagle]

laurenc418,

Welcome to the Boards!

If this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend pre-reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door. It will provide you with lots of great information for planning!

It would help to know where you're flying from? My first impression in reading your proposed Itinerary is that you have too many short visits in some of the cities you'll be visiting. I'd probably drop a few of the locations to provide more of a "comfort zone" for travel times.

Regarding Naples, there are certainly areas that aren't safe to venture into at night, but so far I haven't had any problems there. The Archeological Museum is fantastic and well worth seeing.

I'll have a closer look at your Itinerary in the next few days, when I have more time.

Cheers!

[laurenc418]

We are flying from Tampa, Florida into Europe. I have definitely read the guide book Back Door through Europe! Cover to cover! I know a lot of our time in the cities are short we just want to see so much. If it were you (and this was your first time in Europe) what cities would you drop? Obviously we really want to see the worth-while places.
Thank you so much!

[madamtrashheap]

laurenc418, It can be dangerous suggesting which cities you should leave out of your itinerary as we don't know what you and your friend are interested in, what you count as "must sees" and what your tastes are. So perhaps to assist your planning, you could both list your top 7 cities to visit. Then cross reference and see which ones come up on both your lists. From there, you have a basis for your itinerary and can build other places around that.

It's always tempting to try to cram everything in on your first visit, but you'll end up spending more tiime travelling than sightseeing and even though the scenery from a train window is often spectacular, it's much better when you're standing still for a bit.

IMO, you have so many short stops, and I hope that when you note "2 days" this means 2 full days and not 2 nights, which is only 1 full day and whatever time you have on the day of arrival or morning of departure. If the latter is the case, then you'll feel so rushed you will spend your non-tour days sleeping. Plus, there are some cities in your independent travel sections which deserve far more time than currently allocated (Paris 3-4 full days, ditto for Madrid).

A few other things worth noting:

Frankfurt - is there a way you can finish your tour in Vienna rather than travel back to Frankfurt? Check with the company operating the tour as you might find it's not necessary to backtrack and you can continue your travels from Vienna. Frankfurt really isn't all that exciting in terms of tourism, and allocating another 2 nights there after your tour means less time somewhere else.

Tour of Italy - 4 days for those 4 places really is a whirlwind tour. You'll have early starts, be on the go all day, and hit the major sights only. If you're OK with than, and are happy having that section organised for you, then stick with it. I'd be interested to know where the tour starts and finishes (is it as the order you've listed?) as that may assist in travelling on to Greece. The ferries on the Adriatic are fun, but if you can fly directly to Athens, it will save travel time as if your ferry only goes to Patras or Igoumenitsa you'll then need a bus (or train) to Athens and if you sail to Piraeus this will still add time to your journey as it's quite a bit further around (can often add a night).

Greece - Athens for 2 full days will let you see the sights at a leisurely pace (it will be nice and steamy in August!). To visit Delphi, you could take a day tour as there are quite a few companies and agents offering day trips and as it's only 200kms north of Athens, it won't be a super long day. You'll have to travel from Athens to Mykonos (rather than from Delphi) and I'd suggest looking at flights (Aegean Air) rather than ferries. The regular ferry from Piraeus takes up to 5hrs30 to Mykonos, while the fast ferry from the port of Rafina to Mykonos takes only 2hrs30. If you can get one and the price is better than flights, then go for it.

Naples - I'm like Eagle, I enjoy the chaos of Naples, but if you don't feel confident, perhaps you could consider flying from Athens to Rome, and allocating a day (stay in Rome for at least 4 full days in this case) for your trip to Pompei from there. It will be much easier to do without luggage, so might work better for you.

Vatican City - the Vatican, the world's smallest country, is in Rome, so no need to travel far, but allocating half a day to visit (make sure it's not on a day when it's closed - www.vaticano.va )is a good idea. Make this part of your allocated days in Rome.

Pisa - travelling all the way from Rome to Pisa just for a Tower might disappoint you. Yes it leans. Yes you have to take the obligatory cheesy photo (it's a traveller's must!) but if that's the only reason you're going there, then consider this: try to get an ESCity (Eurostar City) service (there are a few each day) from Rome to Pisa as it will take around 2hr45m and although you stop along the way you won't have to change trains. Once you get to Pisa, store your luggage at Platform 1 (there is a left luggage service, passport required), then you can walk (30mins) through the centre of town to the Tower and Field of Miracles, or take the orange bus from outside the station (you'll see signs) to the city wall just near the Tower. Head back to the station and make your way to Florence by train (1 hour), then stay there the night and take the Eurostar (Italia) directly to Milan. I realise you would have already been to Florence on your tour, but this way you can sneak a little more time in (you'll likely want to after your first visit) and the trains to Milan are frequent and it's a faster (by 1hr min) way to get there.

If you want to stay in Pisa, then you'll discover there is a lot more to the city than just the Tower, but allow travel time the next day (trains to Milan from Pisa involve a change and can take around 4hrs).

Bristol vs Manchester - both cities are great fun, it just depends which one seems more fun to you both. From a travel perspective, 2 days in London is just scratching the surface, so you may want to forgoe both Bristol and Manchester and add time to London before flying or training it up to Edinburgh. If you just can't leave one out, then Manchester (as much as it breaks my heart to say it) is a better choice travel direction-wise.

2 full days in Edinburgh will be fine, then I'd consider flying directly to Dublin rather than to Shannon. Unless you have a specific reason for going to Shannon, this will give you more time in Dublin. If you are flying Ryanair, then check their luggage allowance policies as they are quite strict and being hit with extra charges at the end of your trip won't be a nice finale. Rather look at Aer Lingus or even BMI on this route and avoid Ryanair altogether.

[laurenc418]

Wow, you have given me so many amazing ideas. I am so appreciative and if you had anymore thoughts I'm completely all ears! We actually are only going to Pisa to see the tower. We want to do a lot of typical tourist attractions because we are both somewhat nervous a chance to get back over there might not be available again. I understand that it's hard to give advice on what we should or shouldn't see because you're right it's completely based on that person but in your opinion, are the Greek Islands a must see? I hear that they are gorgeous and that it's very social but would you consider it a must? I'm only wondering because I've been going back and forth on cutting out time on the islands and adding it somewhere else, like London or Rome.

Thanks again!
Lauren

[Eagle]

laurenc418,

As MTH mentioned, it's difficult for any of us here to decide which cities to drop, as we don't know your interests. However, if it were my choice I'd drop Marseille, Pisa, Bristol and Manchester (for a start). I'd drop Frankfurt also, but see that you'll be starting a tour from there.

IMHO you need to expand the time in some destinations, but more importantly provide some "breathing room" for travel times. For example, how were you planning to get from Paris to Madrid?

Which tours of Italy and Switzerland are you taking?

Regarding your day trip to Pompeii, I assume you'll be travelling from Naples to Pompeii Scavi via the Circumvesuviana commuter train? Be sure to watch your valuables on the train, as it has a bit of a "reputation". Allow a bit more than half a day for that, as you'll need travel time. You might consider hiring a local Guide to show you around Pompeii if your budget will allow (trust me, it's more interesting with a Guide and you'll probably be approached by several as you purchase your tickets for the site). www.pompeiitourguide.com/ is excellent, but he's frequently fully booked up. I'm also assuming you're returning to Naples after the tour for one night?

Were you planning to stay in a Hotel or Hostel in Naples? If you need a Hotel suggestion (and you have a generous budget), you might have a look at www.hotelchiaia.it/en/ (the live Webcam shows the street outside the Hotel). It's in a nice area.

As MTH noted, you won't exactly be making a "day trip" to Vatican City, as it's in the middle of Rome. Which part of Rome are you planning to stay in? You can easily get to Vatican City via the Metro, but a bit of a walk is also required.

Just to clarify, you won't be going from Vatican City to Pisa, you'll be travelling from Roma Termini (the main rail station in Rome).

Two days in London is NOT enough! I'd suggest adding the two days from Bristol or Manchester to London, and perhaps taking a day trip to either Bath or York. Bath would be easier and less expensive, as travel by Coach or Train is not that long. Bath is a wonderful city with lots of history. Be sure to take one of the free walking tours. If you had more time, you could also take a half-day trip from Bath to Stonehenge and Lacock (check Mad Max Tours for details).

As you've read Europe Through The Back Door from cover-to-cover, I'm sure you remember Rick's advice on not trying to see everything in one visit, and his saying "assume you will return". ;D

You might want to have a look at some country-specific Guidebooks for the places you'll be visiting (I usually pack a few Guidebooks along on trips to cover the places where I'll be spending the most time). There's a wealth of information in the books that will help you with a lot of the touring and transportation details. You should be able to find a good selection at your local Libraries or book stores. Everyone here has their favourites, including me (there's always a bit of a debate on which ones are "best").

Good luck with your planning!