Back packing europe 48 days

[paperluffy]

Hello, I'm brand new to this board so I'm sorry if this is the wrong area. I was just wondering if I could get some assistance planning my trip. I've never been to europe before and I just wanted some general feedback as to what are the best places. I know that is a hard question be yeah, I want a good mix of super touristy (you have to see) and some not so tourist parts. Im going to start in spain, and be there for half a month before I start the 48 day trip. My girlfriend is there and knows the place fairly well, so we dont really need help with that part. I believe at the end of may we will be in barcelona and thats where it will start.

Ive looked at the site and taking a couple ideas from it I was thinking of a general route of: spain to france and switzerland, then to the UK. Then through maybe belgium&netherlands on our way to germany, from there maybe austria (or someplaces that are suggested) then to greece, and finally to italy to end the trip.

I'm not sure if that is too much for one trip? And thats why I wanted specific places, like what city is good for a base camp to hit other cities etc. I'm sorry if that is too vague. I just wanted to draw apon other peoples trips and see if we could use your experience.

Together we have about 5000 usd, plane and spain are already payed for, plus all pre packing stuff. I beleive she also has friend in france, italy, and germany. I'm not sure where so thats not very helpful however.

Anyway, that was a large wall of text. Sorry for that. And I hope to get some great responses. Ill come back and edit this post after some ideas are posted. Thank you for taking the time to look over this.

[Eagle]

paperluffy,

To begin with, welcome to the Boards! Your post is absolutely in the right area, so no worries.

As this is your first trip to Europe, my first suggestion would be to read the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door, as that will provide a lot of good information on how to travel "well" in Europe.

One question - are you travelling at the end of May this year Also, you mentioned that you'd be returning home from Italy, so I assume you're using open-jaw flights?

In terms of which places to visit, you have a good start with a list of countries. The next step will be to decide which cities to visit within those countries. You might get some good ideas on which cities provide the right blend of "super touristy (you have to see) and some not so tourist parts". Check some country-specific Guidebooks to get some ideas on what might interest you?

Your budget of US$5000 is a bit low, but it should be possible if you're frugal with meals, stay in Hostels and minimize any clubbing. That amount is only ~€3475 (at today's exchange rate). It appears that your trip will be about 62 days total, so that will allow you €56 per day for food, lodgings, sightseeing and local transportation. The money situation will be more critical in the U.K., where US$5000 is about £3055, or about £49 per day. The fact that your expenses in Spain are already accounted for will certainly help.

The route you've proposed is not the most logical or efficient, and will be more costly to accomplish. You might consider taking a budget flight from Spain to the U.K. and then returning to the continent to continue the journey. I'd probably use a route of Spain - U.K. - Paris - Amsterdam / Belgium - Germany / Austria - Italy. I assume you're planning on travelling by train for the most part?

I didn't include Greece in that list, as it would help to know which locations you want to see in Greece? I'm not sure if spending the time and expense to go to Greece simply to see Athens for two days is worth the effort. Also, without a list of all the cities you'll be visiting and the time required for that, it's difficult to know whether you'll even have time for Greece. Finally, if you're travelliing this year, it's probably too late to get the cheap seats on Euro budget flights. You might consider leaving that for a future trip.

You'll be travelling in the middle of the "spring shoulder season" so Europe may be hot and somewhat crowded (although not as bad as July and August). Good planning will be important!

Hopefully the others will have a few comments as well.

Happy travels!

[paperluffy]

Thank you for the response! After considering your message I think the route spain > uk > france > netherlands > germany > greece > italy might be the route we want. It is this may 2011. I will go through each place and look for places in each country this weekend. I was just wondering if you could give me some insite on the uk. It is a big place and besides london I dont have any solid plans on places I want to visit there. Also I was wondering about croatia, or any other countries not listed that you just love. Anyway thank you for reading and I will get back on this, this weekend.

[madamtrashheap]

paperluffy, I'm sure you realise you have a lot of research to do in a short space of time if you want all of your trip finalised before you leave for Spain...hope you've got your nose buried in an atlas this weekend! ;D

You mentioned the countries you'd like to visit as:
spain > uk > france > netherlands > germany > greece > italy and in that order. Eagle has already mentioned you'll need to be a little more logical about the route you take, or at the very least the way in which you travel between each destination. Whilst this isn't the most convenient route, the cities you choose to visit will determine the final order of your itinerary as flights/trains between them aren't always possible or convenient.

To give you a few places to look up/ponder for your final itinerary, you could look at flying out of Spain to London for a few days (if you would like day trips to Stonehenge, Bath, Oxford, etc, then allow 4 full days in London minimum). From there you could travel north to Edinburgh for a few days and then fly from there to Paris for a minimum of 3 full days (no day trips, except half day at Versailles if required).

Take the Thalys fast train to Amsterdam (3.5-4hrs) for a few days, and then fly to Berlin (check Transavia) for 3 days. Train or fly on to your next destination depending on where your girlfriend's friend lives, but consider having Munich, and perhaps Rothenburg ob der Tauber in your itinerary.

From here, I would suggest flying (or train if Munich-Venice) to Italy and ending in Greece, in terms of ease to get to, etc. However, if you are determined to travel to Greece after Germany, then look for charter flights from Munich to the islands to save you time. Otherwise fly to Athens and go from there.

For Greece, you could have 2 days in Athens then fly to Santorini and/or Mykonos. If you want more remote islands, note that in your next post, but 2-3 full days on each island should be fine for you this time around.

Italy will depend on your iterests and where you absolutely have to visit. Getting from Greece to Italy (and vice versa) can involve flying or sailing (overnight ferry) so routes will depend on the cities you choose and how much time you have left.

Croatia is a great place to visit, especially at this time of year, but you are already cramming a lot in and travelling between places may look like it's not far, but don't be fooled - Europe isn't a small as it looks on a map!

[paperluffy]

Thank you guys so much for the help!! It has really made things a lot clearer. I bought the back door travel book, and i have looked at several places in each country. I have a week of planning ahead of me! Agian, i will update with new itenerary when i have time. It is crazy how busy i have been getting ready to go. I appreciate your time and suggestions, and your posts are exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you.

[Eagle]

paperluffy,

As MTH mentioned, you'll need to get some planning sorted in very short order as the end of May is rapidly approaching!

In addition to pre-reading Europe Through The Back Door, you might also consider packing along a general Guidebook that covers most of the places you'll be visiting. Have a look at Best of Europe 2011 from the same author. I suggested packing along the book, as you don't have time to do the research now. If you have the book with you, both of you can use it as a source of reference during the trip.

Of course, you could also take a small collection of country and city-specific Guidebooks also. Have a look at www.ricksteves.com/books/update/rightbook.htm for information on all the books available. I suggested books by that particular author, as those are the ones I'm most familiar with. Most are now available as E-books if you have a Reader (Kindle or iPad). You could also look at books from Lonely Planet, Frommer's, Let's Go or Rough Guides.

One point to mention on using flights within Europe. Given the short time until departure, it's not likely that you'll be able to get the best prices. You may have to just pay whatever they're asking, including lots of extra "fees". For example, I just booked a flight with one of the Euro airlines and had to pay an extra €16 for the "privilege" of using a North American-based VISA card (there would have been no extra charge for VISA Electron). Be sure to read the Terms & Conditions carefully when you book! In terms of airlines, RyanAir is usually my LAST choice (for a variety of reasons).

Good luck and happy travels!

[paperluffy]

Hola, lol Ive been in spain for about a week so i havent been able to reply. Thanks for the help. I have been ajusting the route and i made some changes. Right now im in southern spain so here is my new route, maybe it can be ajusted a little more? We are leaving in a week and Ive bought the ticket to london already really cheap. about to buy the others, however i just wanted some input first.

Malaga > London 3/4(days) also thinking about a day trip to bath > Amsterdam 2/3 > Paris 3/4 > Berlin 3/4 > Vienna 1/2 > Venice 1/2 > Rome 4/5 > Istanbul 3/4 > Athens 4/5 with trips to two islands suggested > Pisa (july 1st really cheap ticket) > Cinque terre 1/2 > Manaco day trip > Nice 1/2 > Barcelona 3/5 (maybe bilboa if we have money) > Madrid

Thank you for your time and help!

I want to fit florence in there for sure, maybe after greece?

[Eagle]

paperluffy,

It's great to hear that you're now in Europe and your holiday is going well.

I have a few comments on the proposed Itinerary in your last post.....

> I'd suggest travelling in the order London - Paris - Amsterdam - Berlin - Vienna - Venice - Rome. I assume you have a flight booked to Istanbul?

> Two days is about right for Athens, but I'm not sure about visiting the Islands. Which islands did you have in mind? Travel by Ferry will require at least half a day each. One island that's easily accessible from Athens is Hydra (if you visit there, be prepared to buy bottled water).

> Again, I assume you have a flight booked from Athens to Pisa?

> Were you planning to take a day trip to Monaco from the Cinque Terre or from Nice. It's much easier to do from Nice. As I recall, the Bus ticket is only €1 each way. When you arrive in Monaco, you can either hike up the hill to the town and Palace, or take another Bus (which means another €1).

>The trip from Nice to Barcelona is a LONG one by train. Be sure to allow adequate travel time.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

[paperluffy]

Thanks for the quick response!

ok, well i booked london to amsterdam already, then a trip to paris. I did this because we have to wait till the 10th before we go to paris (free place to stay for a few days) unfortunalty this makes the ride from paris to berlin kind of expensive. But I found bus tickets with a special offer about 30€ each which seems like the best.

from berlin we will definitly follow the itenerary posted (berlin>vienna>venice>rome) we have talked with a few friends and it seems that getting the train when we get to italy might be our best bet? that trenitalia isnt a very good website?

As for athens, yeah we want to see it, but we are more excited about going to those islands: mykonos and possibly sanitori. Could someone give me insight on how to get to each for fairly cheap, is a flight or a boat cheaper, and i dont mind either, i believe we have the time.

And no, i havent bought the ticket from athens to pisa, but i found a really cheap one, and will buy if no other suggestions are made. I was thinking florence for two days (round trip ticket) and then 1/2 days in the other cities posted?

We would be traveling from pisa to la spezia stay there for a day or two, then take the train to monaco, stay there all day, and then sleep in nice? it seems as though they are all close together and they are fairly cheep rides?

Again thank you for the help, it has really made things easier for us in the planning department.

[Eagle]

paperluffy,

As you've already booked London to Amsterdam, I suppose you'll have to follow that plan. Are you travelling by train or budget flight?

On the next section, Berlin to Vienna is a reasonably short trip. If you're travelling by train, the trip from Vienna to Venice will be about 8-hours (depending on which train you choose). If I haven't mentioned it before, use the www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml website (German Rail) to plan rail journeys. It's an excellent website! Note that your destination in Venice will be Venezia Santa Lucia (there are two stations).

I use the Trenitalia website frequently and find it very useful. Is there a particular reason you feel it isn't a "very good website"? I normally use it in Italian, however there is an English-language tab at the top.

Regarding Greece and travel to the islands, travel by Ferry is about the cheapest you'll get, however it also takes longer. With the Ferries, there are both "regular" versions as well as Fast Cats (which are faster but cost more). Both Mykonos and Santorini have airports with flights from Athens, so that's certainly one option. For LOTS of information on how to travel in Greece and other information about the various Islands, check www.greecetravel.com or www.greektravel.com (both websites are from the same source).

I was in Greece last year, but didn't get to Mykonos. It's rumored to be somewhat of a "party place" (like Corfu), and as I'm older that didn't appeal to me as much. I did get to Santorini for several days and it was fantastic! I used one of the travel agencies (Fantasy Travel) recommended on the above websites to arrange Hotels, Ferries and transfers for that portion of my trip, and everything was great!

With the flight from Athens to Pisa, I'd suggest booking soon as the budget airlines often use a "sliding scale", so the prices increase as the flight fills. Note that many airlines in Europe often have somewhat "restrictive" baggage limits and often only allow ONE carry-on item.

Two days in Florence is good, but of course that depends on what you want to see. If you're planning to visit the Uffizi or Accademia, reservations would be a good idea in order to minimize your time waiting in queue's. Hotels in Florence will usually arrange these on request. There is a way to arrange reservations by phone or Internet, but I don't have the information on hand at the moment.

Just curious, why are you staying in La Spezia rather than one of the five C.T. villages? Considering the next stop in your Itinerary, you might consider staying in Monterosso instead, as it will make the trip to Monaco and Nice slightly shorter. Even so, it will be about six hours. Note that your destination station in Nice will be Nice Ville. Pre-booking accommodations in the C.T. would be a really good idea, as it tends to be fairly busy at this time of year. It recently took me the better part of a week to arrange accommodations in Monterosso for September!

When you take the train from the C.T. to Monaco, what were you planning to do with your luggage while you're touring around? When you travel from Monaco to Nice, you could also take the Bus (as I recall, the fare is only €1). You might consider pre-booking accommodations in Nice, as it could be busy at this time of the year. Be sure to spend some time wandering in the "old town" area, as there are street markets, lots of restaurants and some great street entertainers.

The trip from Nice to Barcelona by train is about 12-hours, so you might consider stopping in an intermediate location to "break up" the long journey into two segments. One possibility would be to stop for at least one night in Carcassone. The large Fortress / Castle there is magnificent! If you dine at one of the restaurants inside the Fortress, be sure to try Cassoulet. There are several versions (including one with Duck) and it's a hearty and tasty meal! The rail trip from Nice to Carcassone is about 6-hours and from Carcassone to Barcelona about 4 - 6 hours.

Happy travels!

[madamtrashheap]

Great call on Carcassone by Eagle, and don't miss the cassoulet either!

For Mykonos, it's both a relax and party place depending on what you're looking for. The main part of the island, around the port, has a variety of bars and nightclubs, and if you find yourself on Paradise Beach at 5pm (it's on the other side of the island, busses run there until 8-9pm) then hang around for the DJ who usually kicks in around 5 and goes until 9. But catch the earlier bus back or you'll be walking a very long way back to the other side. As Eagle has mentioned, ferries are the cheapest transport option, but check the fast ferry if you want to save time. Also look at Aegean Air as you might get lucky with a ticket under US200.

That train trip from Italy to Monaco then on to Nice will take a good portion of the day and you might find yourself with less time in Monaco than planned. They upgraded the train station a few years ago, so I'm not sure if they now have a left luggage area. At any rate, a train from say La Spezia or CT to Monaco will take around 5hrs, which doesn't leave much time for a walk around Monaco before getting the train to Nice. I'd suggest basing yourselves in Nice for 2-3 full days and taking a day or evening trip up to Monaco if you really want to see it all. But a word of advice, if you plan to go inside any of the casinos, dress well. That means, a button up shirt and trousers, not jeans. If you go in the Grand Casino, even for a look, you'll need a tie.

You seem to still be winging a lot of your trip, which is fine, but you'll find soon that accomgmodation and transport options fill up and you might have less of a choice if you don't lock some of the more popular places in. Eagle noted this in Nice, which is true if you want hostel accommodation in Summer, and also true for Mykonos, Santorini and CT.