Europe Backpack

[katejing]

Currently, four of us are planning for europe backpack tour around Sept/October.

duration: 1 month
route:
Manchester airport - Switzerland
Switzerland - Rome
Rome - Athens
Athens - Milan
Milan - Paris
Paris - Madrid
Madrid - Amsterdam
Amsterdam - Berlin


Will it work? We are trying to include Prague, Florence, and Provence.
Bt my friend said transport to Provence will be quite hard to find..

Any other nice place to recommend?
And about transport, will it be all airline route or mix with train cheaper?
Seeking for opinion as we are still fresh in backpacking..

[madamtrashheap]

katejing, welcome to GFE.

I will be able to suggest a route, and perhaps a guideline for how many days in each, but there are still a few gaps in your itinerary in terms of exact places in countries and your interests, ie what you would like to see/do in each place. Also, where do you need to end up after you finish the trip - where are you flying back to?

As for a route, the one you've suggested below tends to jump around a bit. I'm not sure why you chose things in this order, but I would suggest doing things in a more "logical" order. That is, look at starting from Manchester and going to say Paris, then Amsterdam, Berlin, Athens, Rome, Milan, Switzerland, Madrid. Again, not necessary to go exactly that route, but you get the idea of not backtracking (as you would if you kept the current route).

Switzerland - not sure where you plan to fly into (I'm guessing Zurich), but it is easy enough to get around Switzerland by train. They are very efficient and cover a lot of places. If you haven't already decided where in Switzerland you want to go, look at the Bernese Oberland, the mountains around the town of Lauterbrunnen. The area is very scenic, great for hiking, mountain biking or just staring at the mountains. There are little villages to stay in (Lauterbrunnen, Murren, Gimmelwald) and you can access mountains like Jungfrau or Schilthorn from those bases. Depending on your interests, I'd spend 3 nights (2 full days) in the region. And look at getting the Swiss Pass which gives discounts on rail and even up to the mountains.

Rome - spend a minimum of 4 nights here, depending on what you want to see and if you were thinking of a (long) day trip to Pompei.

Athens - if you're just staying in Athens (ie no other areas to visit) then 2 full days will be good, but again that depends on how much you want to see. Keep an eye on things there too. At the moment, the demonstrations are mainly contained to Syntagma Square, the centre of the city, so Plaka, Acropolis, etc are still fine to be in.

Milan - if you plan to see The Last Supper, then book as far ahead as you can for tickets. Milan is the least Italian of all cities, so you could spend just 1 full day here and see the art, Duomo, Galleria and centre of the city, or scrap it all together if you have no real interest in Da Vinci or shopping.

Paris - 4 full days here will let you see a lot, plus take time to just sit and enjoy the view. Check the days of the week you'll be here as many museums close on Monday or Tuesday.

Madrid - 3 full days will be good, even if you plan a day trip to Toledo, etc.

Amsterdam - 3 full days with no day trips.

Berlin - 3-4 full days, lots to see and do.

You will be best to use a combination of rail and air travel, so once you've sorted an exact route and cities, we will be able to offer more suggestions on the best transport options between each place.

[Eagle]

katejing,

I agree with MTH concerning your proposed travel route. It's a bit convoluted and not very efficient. Could you clarify which parts of Switzerland you want to visit?

The route I'd suggest is:

Manchester - Switzerland - Milan - Rome - Athens - Madrid - Paris - Amsterdam - Berlin (fly back to Manchester from Berlin?).

Use budget flights for the longer routes and rail for the rest. On the Rome - Athens route, EasyJet is a good option. I travelled that route last year and it was a very pleasant flight. I'd have to research the other air and rail trips.

Are you residents of the U.K.? If so, I'm sure you'll be familiar with travel by train, so I won't elaborate on that.

Good luck with your planning!

[katejing]

Thanks.. We are Malaysian, studying in Sheffield..that's why not familiar with travel by train..

At first, my friend is planning to use cheap flights for all routes..but perhaps will use overnight train for longer route so that can save hotel costs too..

For Switzerland, we put in Geneva..if we change to like 3.4 countries and then spend a week in each countries..Which one will be more efficient? If so, we will choose France, Italy, Greece and Switzerland.

Heard that Prague is backpackers' heaven..what means by that?

Thanks a lot..we do need a lot of assistance since we are not familiar with here. =)

[Eagle]

katejing,

Regarding your last note....

At first, my friend is planning to use cheap flights for all routes..but perhaps will use overnight train for longer route so that can save hotel costs too

Using budget flights for all routes is NOT a good idea. You'd need to consider the time and expense to get to and from airports, as well as the usual "hassles" such as security, waiting times, etc. I generally only consider a budget flight if the train travel is over about seven hours.

Using overnight trains is also not always the best idea. If you're going to stay in a Couchette, there's an additional cost for that. Also, if the train has numerous changes during the night, you WON'T be getting much sleep. It will be easier to make specific suggestions on transportation once you have an Itinerary worked-out.

You could certainly spend a week in each of the countries you mentioned, however be sure to allow for adequate travel times each time you change locations.

Heard that Prague is backpackers' heaven..what means by that?

What that means is something I can't answer until September, as I'll be in Prague then. I suspect it means that Prague is a vibrant city with lots of great Beer! The Czech Pilseners and other Beer are reportedly excellent, and there are many different types. Given your home location, I suspect that wouldn't be a big attraction for you.

I'd suggest checking your local Libraries or larger book stores to have a look at some Guidebooks. That will help you to decide sightseeing options in each location. If you haven't travelled in Europe before, reading Europe Through The Back Door would be a good idea, although I don't know if you'll be able to find a copy of that in Sheffield.

Regarding rail travel in Europe, you may find it helpful to have a look at a short video - click www.youtube.com/watch?v=moLGxdId9uU (the video is a few years old, but it will give you an idea). There are other videos from the same author, including some that describe the areas you want to visit.

It would help to have a list of the cities you want to visit within each country. It's difficult to work out transportation details unless the cities are known.

Cheers!

[katejing]

Hi guys..
Here I draft our first itinerary.

We would want to visit those famous destinations eg. building, art, and something blue also, like sea.

Where we will go?

France
- Paris (3/4days)
- Nice
- Provence

Italy
( I guess Eagle suggesting staying in Rome for 3/4 days is because of Italy other small places.)

Rome&Vatican city
Pisa
Florence
Venice
Cinque Terre or Milan

Switzerland - Lucerne City， Mt. titlis

Prague

Germany
- Frankurt
- Munich
- Cologne
- Berlin
( I tried to search out where is near Rhine Valley, Black Forest, and Schwardwald. In the end, i'm getting confused by those small area name. I think these three places should we go. )

Greece
- Athens
- Crete Island
- Santorini Island


Temporarily, idea of countries is in this order. Germany quite big, and its places is in messy. Have any opinions?

We'll travel from 17th of September, lasting around 30 days.

[katejing]

Forgot to say we need to cut down, but yet to struggle betweeen priorities.

[madamtrashheap]

I see you've now added more of Greece than just Athens, which is what I was suspecting and I should have mentioned earlier that Greek islands begin to close down for the season by the end of September, so if you do keep Santorini in (and 3-4 nights there would be good) I would recommend starting in Greece while the weather is still warm and things are open. Crete, of course, is a much larger island so doesn't close down as such, but does get quieter and less beach-like weather after the end of September. Perhaps consider flying from Manchester to Athens to start your trip in Greece, then ferry or fly to Santorini, back to Athens and do a little more research as to why you are going to Crete. Your itinerary is already very long (as you know) so you will need to cut some places out.

Germany - keep in Berlin (3-4 nights), Munich (3-4 nights including day trip to Neuschwanstein castle) and Cologne (1night only is fine), ditch Frankfurt completely. Cologne sits at the northern end of the Rhein, so you could do a very short 1-2 hour cruise in Cologne of the Rhein to see the scenery. But trying to fit the Black Forest (Schwarzwald is German for Black Forest) in as well will take more time from other places. NOTE: Oktoberfest is on in Munich from 17 September to 3 October, so accommodation will be VERY HARD to find if you plan to be there during these dates. You will need to book ASAP.

France - Paris is good as show. I would skip Nice if you are going to Santorini as it will be getting cooler and the beach won't be as nice. Provence is beautiful, but where to go will depend on the other cities nearby that you choose - that is, what transport is available between cities nearby.

Italy - Rome as per Eagle's suggestion. Venice for 2-3 nights is good. Florence for 3 nights and you can do a half-day trip on the train (1 hour by train) to Pisa. Cinque Terre needs 4 nights to appreciate and you may run out of time in your month of travel, so decide if you really want to visit this time around. Milan is not worth going to on this trip unless you want to shop at the designer stores. I would stick to Rome, Venice and Florence for this trip.

Switzerland - Luzern/Lucerne is pretty and you can access several mountains from here: Mt Pilatus, Mt Stanserhorn or Mt Titlis. All are reached by train to the bottom, then cog rail/cable car depending on the mountain.

Prague - it's a great city, but if you find you are running out of time (and I think you will) then skip it this time around. The reason it has been referred to as a "backpacker's heaven" is because about 10 years ago it was still very cheap for accommodation and food and drink, but now it is the same price as many other European cities. Still lots to see, but research a little more as to why you want to go there.

Have a look at the places mentioned again, decide on what you are all interested in and you will be able to select the cities to visit from there. Let us know when you have re-done your itinerary and we will be able to offer more advice.

[katejing]

Hi guys..been busy for a while..

The new updates here:
MU airport - Zurich airport - train to Lucerne city - Mt. Tiltis
After that, we will be fly from Basel airport to Venice..we face a problem here because Zurich airport also can connect to London or Manchester..Do ur guys gt other ideas?
Then continue journey:
Venice - Florence - Pisa - Rome - Athens - Milan - Paris - Berlin - Cologne - Munich

Here again will see the backtracking..
Similar..from Athens to Paris will be higher cost..so we decide to separate into two flights and visit one more place..

I myself feel that this route is not so satisfied..Could have other advices on the arrangement?
There are all the countries listed..only if possible add in Amsterdam..

Thanks..

[Eagle]

katejing,

I'm not clear on what you're planning for the first part of your trip. Could you provide further information? What are you referring to with "MU airport"?

For the trip from Lucerne to Venice, you might also consider travel by train. With the current schedules, there's a direct train departing Lucerne at 08:18, arriving Venezia Santa Lucia at 15:10 (time 6H:52M, no changes, reservations compulsory). I doubt that flying will be any faster, by the time you get to Basel and the airport, security, waiting, and then getting from the airport into Venice. Travel by train will be a much more pleasant trip, with no worries about luggage limits or extra charges.

[katejing]

Eagle,

Means we depart from MU airport..Hope that it's what you want..
Okay..this will be one of the way..

May I know whether the rest, especially Athens part, is okay or not?
Or could be another route there?


=)

[madamtrashheap]

katejing, I think by "MU airport" you mean Munich airport. If this is so, I'd suggest, to avoid confusion, you refer to it as either Munich or MUC (that's the office airport code).

So, from what I can make out of your adjusted itinerary:

fly Manchester to Munich
fly Munich to Zurich
train Zurich to Lucerne
train Lucerne to Basel
fly Basel to Venice
Florence
Pisa (NOTE: this can be done as a half-day trip from Florence)
Rome
Athens
Milan
Paris
Berlin
Cologne
Munich

For ease of reading and understanding your current plans, can I suggest you do the following:
1. list out, in order and in full names, the cities you're travelling to
2. write next to each city the number of nights you plan to spend there
3. list the travel method (fly or train) between each city

The more logical and clear you are with your information, the easier it will be for everyone to give you advice. It's hard to follow plans when they aren't listed out clearly and because the cities keep changing.

If the cities I have listed above are the correct ones, then as you've noted, there is backtracking here and I think you are still trying to fit too many places in to your itinerary for one month. I would suggest removing Milan (unless you plan to shop or book ahead to see The Last Supper) and Cologne. If you want to add Amsterdam, that is possible, but will mean taking time away from another city. As has been mentioned, there is no need to fly into and out of the same city (eg Munich). If you want to save time, then fly into one place and out of (that is, back to Manchester) another one so you don't need to backtrack. Flights are cheap enough in Europe that there is no need for a ticket that goes into and out of the same place.

[Eagle]

katejing,

I agree with the comments made by MadamTrashHeap. It would really be helpful to have a concise list of the cities you plan to visit, and the order of visits. I also feel that you're trying to fit too many stops into a short one-month time frame, which will be difficult to achieve.

[katejing]

Guys..now my plan has changed thoroughly..

I will be with one friend only..Two of us will plan like this:

16th Sept- London
21th Sept- Ryanair flight to Germany Dusseldorf

*for Germany, we will be staying in my friend's relative house as guest. Therefore, we will be guiding around for a walk. Probably, a weekend trip to Amsterdam.*

1st Oct till 4th Oct- Prague

5th Oct till 9th Oct - Paris

I'm thinking about the airline or eurail pass from Germany to Prague and Paris..
Any ideas?

Her relative recommend the air flight then..

And, do UK resident can apply for interrail multi-country pass from raileurope.com?

Thanks.

[madamtrashheap]

Wow katejing, your plans have changed, but that's not a bad thing as you'll have time in each place to explore and also to do a few day/overnight trips.

As has been mentioned, make sure you pay attention to the luggage weight limits set by RyanAir - they are very strict with checked baggage weight (the bag that goes under the plane) as well as with the size (not weight) of any carry-on bags. And if you have extra by the time you get to the airport and haven't pre-booked it online, you'll pay a lot more for bags, so plan ahead well.

Düsseldorf - that's great that you have a place to stay already. Your friend's relatives will be able to suggest things in the city and region to see and do. The old town of Düsseldorf was rebuilt after WWII but it still looks "old", plus you could take a day trip (by train) to Cologne (Köln in German), head down to Bonn and take a short cruise on the Rhein, as well as the few days in Amsterdam. I would take the train to Amsterdam - will be about 2-3hrs by train, so better than flying.

Prague - I would fly this route as you can look at flights from Düsseldorf airport with Czech Air (CSA) or Lufthansa, but book this flight NOW as the further ahead you book the better the price. You could also look at flights from Cologne/Bonn Airport (30mins from Düsseldorf by train) with GermanWings. A train Düsseldorf to Prague will take around 10 hours.

Then from Prague to Paris, fly with Czech Air (you can book all legs online with them if the prices are suitable), EasyJet or SmartWings. Make sure you fly into Charles de Gaulle Airport (CDG) or Orly Airport (ORY) and not Beauvais as that will take far too long to get into Paris, whereas the other two airports are much easier to access.

You won't be doing a lot of train travel between countries, so perhaps look at a German Rail Pass only, or even see if your friend's relatives can book ahead for cheaper rail tickets, esp to Amsterdam. Don't purchase on the day of travel as it will cost you more than if you purchase a few days in advance. Check the Deutsche Bahn website www.deutschebahn.com/site/bahn/en/start.html for times, prices, etc.

Now that you have your travel dates, make sure you book your flights right now as the longer you leave it the more expensive they will become. From Paris, you could take the Eurostar back to London (if that's your final destination), but again, book in advance (that it, now!) to get the better prices. If you are travelling to Manchester from Paris, look at flights instead.

Once you've booked the flights, let us know and we can fill in some information on things to do/day trips for the other destinations.