Covering Europe

[notthefall]

Hello everybody,

I'm pretty new to this site but I've been reading a lot of past posts and learning a lot from all of you.

I'm currently working on a cruise ship in the Caribbean. Come mid April we'll be crossing the Atlantic over to Europe.

We go around Italy, Spain, and France. I'm going to sign off the ship July 22nd in Barcelona.

Once I sign off i plan to stay in Europe for 8 weeks.
Here's my tentative itinerary.

I was wondering of anybody could make any suggestions or recommendations for places to see or means of transport.

As of right now I'm winging a lot of this.

Fly from Barcelona to:
Oslo, Norway

Then from there use local transportation to:

Copenhagen, Denmark
Stockholm, Sweden
Helsinki, Finland
St. Petersburg, Russia (pending visa)
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Minsk, Belarus (pending visa)
Kiev, Ukraine
Warsaw / krakow, Poland
Prague, Czech republic
Berlin, Germany
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Luxembourg
Switzerland
Northern Italy
Austria
Slovakia
Budapest, Hungary
Slovenia
Croatia
Bosnia
Serbia
Romania
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Albania
Montenegro
Greece

Thank you for any tips you guys can send my way.

Once again, thanks so much

[Eagle]

notthefall,

First of all, welcome to the Boards! You might want to delete your duplicate Thread on this topic, in order to keep the replies together. This topic is more suited in the "Pre-Travel Planning" section.

Your Itinerary is extremely ambitious, even for an eight week time frame. I really believe this is not realistically possible. You're planning to visit a total of 29 different places in 56 days, but you haven't provided any allowance for travel times. Your list includes 11 cities and 18 countries or regions. That's an average of 1.93 days per location, with no allowances for travel times which in some cases will be considerable. As you can see, it will be necessary to do some serious "pruning" on your wish list!

To being with, I'd suggest dropping St. Petersburg, Kiev and Minsk, as there's not only the cost and complexity of the Visas, but also the time and cost to get there and back.

It would help to know what type of budget you're working with? The Scandinavian countries are especially expensive, so that's something to consider.

What are you mostly interested in seeing and doing in Europe - Museums, Galleries, historic sites, clubs???

Hopefully MadamTrashHeap will spot this post, as I know she'll have some great advice.

Good luck with your planning!

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome to GFE, notthefall.

Just to stop double-answers to your two Posts, let's keep them all in one place rather than splitting between this one and your other one pretravel.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=intinary&action=display&thread=8382

As far as modes of transport go, you will be best served using a combination of flights, trains and sometimes bussess between each city. If you could give us an idea of how long you're planning to spend in each city, as well as list the cities in each country you're visiting, that will also help. Also an idea of your interests will help with suggestions.

I'm going to advise from the outset that 8 weeks will probably not be enough to adequately cover all the places on your list. There is a lot of ground to cover in that time and journeys can take longer than you expect in some places (esp. Croatia, Serbia, Albania, Romania). So if you could list the number of days in each city you were thinking of, that will certainly help to get an idea of just how much time you'll need and how much ground you can cover in 8 weeks. You will likely find that you need to remove some destinations in order to fit others in, so list your must-visit places first, then your "if there's time" places and that will give a skeleton itinerary to start with.

You may also want to readjust the order of places visited. For example:
1. from Barcelona, fly to Amsterdam, spend time there then fly to Copenhagen (closer and flight to Oslo abound) and continue by flying to Oslo, flying to Stockholm and flying to Helsinki (there is a ferry Stockholm to Helsinki but it's an overnight journey with a 5pm departure. Here's a website for the Silja line: www.tallinksilja.com/en/.
NOTE: not sure why you're going to Luxembourg, but unless you have a specific reason for visiting, you may want to drop it as it doesn't fit "comfortably" with the rest of the itinerary in terms of direction/transport.

2. From St Petersburg, you can travel to Tallinn by bus which leaves twice a day and takes around 6hrs (try to avoid flying out of St Petersburg - you need to be at the airport a minimum of 4 hours before your flight for the security, check-in and more security. It takes an eon, so decide what suits you best.). From Tallinn, the bus to Riga takes a little over 4hrs. On to Lithuania and Belarus (that visa can take longer than a Russian one) then Kiev/Ukraine (look at flights if you can, the train/bus will be a bit of a journey).

3. From there it gets tricky in terms of direction. You could fly from Kiev to Warsaw then train to Krakow and on to Berlin, but you are close to Romania and Bulgaria so it's tempting to say to Romania while you're in the area then fly to Krakow, train to Warsaw and fly or train to Berlin and then train to Dresden-Prague, etc. But I'm going to suggest doing Ukraine, Poland, Germany, then on as below as this makes the most sense in terms of not backtracking too much.

4. After Warsaw and Krakow, you could make your way to Berlin (by train), then to Prague via a day (or just an afternoon depending on interests) in Dresden via train. The journey between Berlin and Prague is not long, and a side trip to Dresden is easily done.

5. From Prague, look at going to Austria (eg Vienna, not sure where else you're looking at, but look at Innsbruck, Salzburg and parts of the Tirol) by train, then on to Hungary. NOTE: if you are only going to Bratislava in Slovakia, then that can be done in a day trip from Vienna.

6. Switzerland and Northern Italy - it would help to know where in both of these regions where you're planning to visit, ie cities/towns. This will help to advise on routes to take and where in your itinerary they will fit best - it may be that they need to be placed in a different order than you currently have as there is a little back-tracking going on.

7. From Venice (am counting this as northern Italy) it is easy to go along to Slovenia and then on to Croatia, B&H, Serbia, Albania, Montenegro, etc. NOTE: travelling through Albania will take longer than you think as the roads aren't exactly in top shape and accommodation isn't yet up to a high standard - they are still getting used to people wanting to visit so taking a while to catch up.

8. Getting around Romania and Bulgaria will be a combination of trains (which are mercifully better than they were even 10 years ago) and busses. However, we will need to know where in each of these places you plan to visit in order to give transport, etc, advice.

9. Assuming you're flying out of Athens to your home base. If not, let us know where you'll be flying out of Europe as this will affect itinerary order as well.

Visas - depending on the passport you hold, you will, as you've seen with Russia, need Visas for some of the countries you're planning to visit. Check with each embassy - online is usually a good start - and remember that getting a Russian visa can be tricky as there is a "timer" on it from the time you get it to the time you activate it, plus you may need to surrender your passport to the Russian visa processing office. Make sure you're very correct and exacting with the details you place on your Russian visa as they will take payment to process it and if there are any mistakes you'll have to pay again. Get your "Invitation" letter from your accommodation prior to applying (they will email it to you in most cases). Also, look into visiting St P from Helsinki on the ferry or the spanking new fast train line (Allego - everyone is very excited and all of St Petersburg is raving about it, my friend has been on it 4 times already!) as there may be an option for a temporary visa (24hrs) if this is the only place you visit in Russia and you may not have to go through the full visa office rigmarole.

Once you've go your cities and route sorted, you'll be able to work out the best transport methods between each place. Some sites which might help you:
www.skyscanner.net - budget flights
www.luxexpress.eu/en/timetable - travel around the Baltic and into/out of Russia
www.db.de (German train site but does routes for all of Europe so easy to work out times, etc).
www.seat61.com - the guru of train travel

Happy planning and let us know when you have your cities listed and the next version of your itinerary.

NOTE: looks like Eagle and I were posting at similar times (spotted the Post, Eagle!) As he and I have now noted, your itinerary will be hard to do in the time allotted.

[notthefall]

Thanks, I deleted the second post, sorry about that.
I'm out in port right now, but I'm going to carefully reread what you both wrote.

Plans MAY change a bit. I got offered another ship that travels Europe pending a language test (they want you to speak more than just English, so I need to spiff up my Spanish and German some more).

If I end up on that ship, there are some countries I can get rid of because the ship will take me there. Also, a friend from Macedonia was going to travel with me most of the time, but now she leaves for another ship sooner. So I'll just visit her at home.

As for the temporary visa for only St. Petersburg, where would I be able to find info about that as I haven't be able to?

I'm going to rewrite the list taking all this information into consideration aw well as where the ship would take me if I got it. Also, if I did get the ship, my travel time will be cut from 8 weeks to 6. From there, I'd love any and all information.

As for a budget, I'll have about $10,000 to use if needed

[madamtrashheap]

Once you know if and when the next ship will visit some of the places on your list, let us know and that will allow your itinerary to take shape.

The temporary visa would usually only apply if you were on a cruise (which you may well be) and visiting St P from Helsinki, however I think this now extends to the use of the overnight ferry (not train AFAIK) called St Peter Line ( www.stpeterline.com ). I believe it's possible to visit St P (or any other Russian port, not overland travel) for 72 hours without a full Russian visa. This is dependent on travelling to and from Russia by this ferry/cruise within that 72 hours. There was a change to visa rules in early 2010 which allows this form of entry and exit to Russia. There is also a compulsory "city tour" with an additional cost (around Euro15 I think) which is part of the visa-free conditions, but from what I hear it's more like a shuttle bus that takes you to/from the port to the city centre with no real commentary, so it's just to make sure they comply with the visa legislation by a bare minimum. Have a look on the website for details.

As for your budget, assuming that is US Dollars, that's a good amount to travel with. If you work on around US$100 ber day (which is Euro 75 per day) that will be a modest budget for food, accommodation and travel. You may want to up the amount per day, particularly in Scandi countries, and of course that will be impacted by the eventual amount of time you have to travel (6 weeks vs 8 weeks).

[notthefall]

Hello again all,
Greetings from Livorno!

So I have my next ship information finally. I've been reworking my travel plans based on it.

This is just a rough time line...
Please let me know what you all think, once again any and all advice is greatly appreciate!

July 22 Barcelona - Athens 
23 - Athens - thessaloviki 
24 - thessaloviki - Macedonia 
25 - macedonia - albania - montenegro - Bosnia 
26 - Bosnia - Serbia 
27 - Serbia - Hungary 
28 - Hungary 
29 - hungary - Romania 
30 - Romania 
31 - Romania - bulgaria - Macedonia 
Aug 
1 - Macedonia - Kosovo - macedonia 
2 - macedonia 
(Ukraine is possible depending on flight cost)
So...This half is up in the air 
Ukraine 
Poland 
Germany 
Czech republic 
Austria 
Italy (northern)
Switzerland 

I'll have about 10 days free  if I do 3 days or so each so I was looking into stopping in Gibraltar, morocco, or even in Israel for a bit before August 29th when I have to be back in Barcelona. 

From July 22nd until August 2nd I'll be with my friend from Macedonia and have access to a car if needed. 

Thank you again
Julie

[Eagle]

julie,

I'm not sure I'll be able to offer many suggestions on your proposed travel plans. Many of the areas you're planning to visit are in a part of Europe I haven't visited yet (Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia), so my information is a bit limited.

I'm also not entirely clear on the time line of your trip. You indicated that you'd have "10 days free". Are you planning to visit all the locations within those 10 days?

Hopefully MadamTrashHeap will spot this post, as I'm sure she will have some good suggestions.

Good luck and happy travels!

[notthefall]

Eagle,

Thankfully for the first part of my trip I will have my friend who is local to the area (Macedonia) and some in Serbia and Romania. Although any other information as to getting around would be great. She has a car, but we were thinking about renting one as well.

As for the 10 days free, if I spent about 3 days in the other places, I'd still have about 10 days before Aug 29th when I need to fly from Barcelona back to the states. I was thinking about squeezing in a trip to Israel (like a second home to me) or Gibraltar and Morocco.

I'd love to hear anything you have as well as MadamTrashHeap, you both seem rather insightful

Thank you again

[Eagle]

Julie,

I still don't have any definite answers for you, but some thoughts.....

The first part of your trip from July 22 to August 2 seems VERY BUSY! You're covering a fair distance with what appears to be a lot of one-night stops. For example, on July 25 you list "macedonia - albania - montenegro - Bosnia". I haven't checked a Map, but that seems like a lot to cover in one day.

Regarding renting a car, there could be some potential "issues" with that. I don't know what's typical for car rental in eastern Europe, but typically those under 25 may be unable to rent. If you were planning to rent in one country and drop the car in another, that typically comes with huge drop-off charges. You would also have to be extremely careful to obtain a good CDW package, and of course would likely need a credit card to rent. You may find some good information on the www.gemut.com website.

Given the fact that you're working with a limited time frame, I'd suggest dropping Ukraine this time. Have you checked to determine whether you would need a Visa? I haven't been to Ukraine, but the Visa process for Russia tends to be a bit expensive and complicated. I assume you're travelling on a U.S. Passport?

For the last part of your trip, if you're planning to visit Poland, Germany, Czech republic, Austria, Italy (northern) and Switzerland in a space of 10 days, that's also very ambitious. It's important to allow adequate transportation times between locations, which in each case will usually be a minimum of half a day (and sometimes more).

Hopefully MTH will appear soon, as I'm not sure what else to suggest.

[madamtrashheap]

I'm back - sorry, been über busy and have been visiting the Boards as often.

Julie, I can only help with Bulgaria and Romania as Macedonia and Serbia are still on my list (although I have skirted through Macedonia many years ago).

As you are likely to be driving with a firend, you'll be able to cover a lot of ground, but the roads in Albania, B&H, parts of Serbia and southern Croatia (if you go there) are still quite rough in parts and therefore quite slow going. So what looks like a short distance on a map will take a lot longer.

Same applies to Romania and Bulgaria, depending on thr routes you take. There are, of course, highways/motorways which are well maintained, but if you're planning to see any of the smaller areas you'll find the roads can be narrow and slow.

As your friend is from Macedonia, s/he will likely know about road taxes required for each country. Many require you to purchase a permit at the border upon arrival - this let's you drive on the roads and acts as a "toll".

You, depending on your passport, will also need to make sure you're across ALL rquirements for visas for each country as there's nothing like arriving at a border and not being able to purchase a visa there, ie you needed to get it prior to arrival. I can't stress enough how much prior research, and applying, you need to do before you set off on July 22.

A couple of other comments: I'm still concerned that you're not allowing much time in places and seem to be "checking off" a list of places to go, rather than actually having time to explore.

Athens for only 1 night - really isn't going to allow much time to see more than the road on the way in from the airport plus the area around your hotel. If you can make it two nights, you'll at least get to visit the major sights in Athens.

Athens - thessaloviki: I think you mean Thessaloniki. How are you planning to travel this route? Fly or train or bus?

Thessaloniki - Macedonia: again, Thessalonki has a bit to see - it's the 2nd largest Greek city - and depending on how you choose to travel there, you won't have time to see much at all with only 1 night.

macedonia - albania - montenegro - Bosnia - I also don't get how you'll do this in one day, ie 25 July. Not possible, unless you're just driving straight through each place and not stopping ever, not even for bathroom breaks! I realise you're going back to Macedonia, but the other places would benefit from 2 nights (1 full day) in a city/town rather than just driving through.

Bosnia - Serbia: as above, one night will not do this justice.

Hungary 2 nights - where exactly do you plan to stop?

Same for Romania and Bulgaria, in fact all the countries - it would be better if you listed what cities/towns you plan to visit, rather than just the country. It will give a better indication of how much time you need, but I can say with much certainty that you'll need more than the 1 day per country (on average) you've allocated here.

Jun 10, 2012 4:41:08 GMT -5 notthefall said:

So...This half is up in the air
Ukraine
Poland
Germany
Czech republic
Austria
Italy (northern)
Switzerland

Again, it would be better to know the cities you plan to visit, rather than just the country name. Even if you haven't fully decided, just an idea of the places you're looking at visiting will let us offer suggestions.

[notthefall]

Thank you again.
Ship life has been crazy busy lately with the summer.
I have my cities narrowed down, I'm going to try to post them later today or tomorrow.

About to go explore the Sistine Chapel

[notthefall]

I think I have worked out some what of a list here:


7/23 – Barcelona (Girona) – Thessaloviki
Greece: Thessaloviki, Athens, Mount Olympus, Crete, Santoríni, Kefaloniá
Macedonia: Covered
Albania: Tirana
Montenegro: Got that covered as well
Bosnia: Sarajevo
Serbia: Belgrade , Novi Sad
Hungary: Budapest (if possible: Pécs)
Romania: Bucharest, Transylvania, Carpathian Mountains
Bulgaria: Sofia (if possible: Plovdiv, Pirin National Park)
Kosovo

Poland: Warsaw, Krakow, Auschwitz, Kravnastraw
Germany: Berlin, Stuttgart(Lichtenstein Castle), Dresden. Possibly Frankfurt and Munich
Czech Republic: Prague and if possible: Českŷ Krumlov
Austria: Vienna. Salzburg. (if possible: Krimml Falls at the National Park Hohe Tauern)
Italy: Milan, Venice
Luxembourg: only if time allows, Luxembourg city, Grund , Clervaux
Switzerland: Bern, Geneva, Zurich (possibly: Basel, Augusta Raurica, Interlaken, Monte Tamaro )

Possibly

Gibraltar
Morocco
Portugal


Thank you again for all your help!!

[Eagle]

It will take me some time to go through your proposed travel plans. At this point, I don't have any easy answers. Hopefully MTH will spot this post, as I'm sure she will have some good suggestions.

Could you clarify the time frame of this trip? You'll be starting on 7/23, but when does this end?

[notthefall]

Thank you again, for all of your help, both of you.

I have a flight out of Barcelona Aug 29th. (Not sure of the time yet, my company will tell me)

Albania, Montenegro, and Kosovo are only like part of a day trip out there.

The others I'm pretty open.

Thank you - Julie

[notthefall]

I can't believe in about 4 days all this is about to start!