Advice on Itinerary for 12 weeks

[jlimster]

Hi everyone, 

I'm totally new to this site and found it by accident on google but would love any additional advice. I'm from Australia and planning a trip of about 12 weeks start late August til mid November. I've done a little research and have sort of fleshed out a plan. I'll be on exchange for 6 weeks near London but it is pretty flexible and I will still definitely travel during this time. 


23/08 – Arrive: Barcelona around 2
24/08 - Barcelona

25/08 Monday

26/08

26/08 - Barcelona-> Valencia (train) Start tour - Water and wine festival, Requena
27/08 Weds – La Tomatina, Bunol

28/08 - Valencia -> Madrid (train)early morning
29/08 Madrid –> Rome (fly) afternoon
30/08

31/08

01/09 Monday Rome –> Naples -> Florence

02/09 - Florence

03/09 –

04/09 - Florence ->Pisa -> Venice

05/09 – Venice

06/09 – Venice -> Nice

07/09 – Nice/Monaco

08/09 Monday - Nice/Monaco Nice -> Marseilles

09/09 – Marseilles

10/09 – Marseilles -> Montpellier -> Tours

11/09 – Loire Valley

12/09 - Loire Valley

13/09 - Loire Valley, Orleans

14/09 – Paris -> London 

6 weeks exchange
15/09 Monday 
16
17
18
Tour Opening weekend Oktoberfest 19-21
19/09 Friday – London -> Munich

20/09 – Munich Oktoberfest

21/09 – Munich Oktoberfest

22/09 – Munich

23/09 – Munich -> Berlin (drive)
24/09 –

25/09 – Berlin -> London


26/09– 24/10 UK

Bath

London

York, etc



24/10 Friday - London -> Paris
25/10 Saturday Paris
26/10 –

27/10 Monday

28/10

29/10 – Versaille

30/10 - Paris -> Lyon

31/10 – Lyon-> Geneva (stay in Lausanne or Manteaux?)

01/11 – Geneva day trip to Chamonix Mont-Blanc Aiguille du Midi + Mer de Glace C

02/11 - Geneva -> Budapest (Fly)
03/11 Monday -

04/11

05/11- Budapest -> Vienna 
06/11 -

07/11

08/11 – Vienna -> Prague

09/11 -

10/11 
11/11 - Monday - Prague -> Amsterdam(fly)
12/11

13/11

14/11

15/11- Depart 2200



I'm basically interested in seeing the main sites and scenery, doing cultural things, love food & history, interesting things to do but don't really fancy art museums so would like any advice if my itinerary is too rushed, what i definitely should see etc.
Also the first half and then second half after UK could anyone advise what the best and cheapest way to buy train tickets. 
In spain, i think its just cheaper to buy individual journeys since I'm flying to Rome but from Rome until London would it be good to buy an Italy pass and France pass or combine them somehow? Does anyone know?

The second half of my trip I'd also like to know if its just best to buy separate journeys or if there's some pass.

Thanks for your help!

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome to GFE, jlimster.

That's great you've done some research on places to visit while you're based in the UK. You're spoilt for choice and it's easy to travel back and forth to Europe, and within the UK don't forget, so make the most of it.

You can take small trips from your base during your stay - not sure if you're working or studying so this will limit the time you're away - so don't try to cram everything in on the big trip. At first glace at your itinerary, you are, obviously, travelling around a lot and in some cases might want to allocate more time to some places, especially if you are considering day trip.

For example, when you travel to Rome from Madrid (flying is a good option), you've only allowed 3 nights (= 2 full days) in Rome and then travel south to Naples before going north to Florence, all in the same day from what I can make out. This is a) a long day and b) no necessary, and c) shortchanging Rome and the Amalfi Coast (if that's what you were intending). I know you're not into museums as such, but allow 3 days for Rome itself at least as there is so much to see and do. Then if you are interested in Naples and/or the Amalfi, allow a few nights here. Then travel north to Venice next - spend 3 nights here and you can get out to the islands like Burano, Murano or Torcello as well as walk through Venice in the evenings (quieter). Then on to Florence for 4 nights (3 days) which will give you time to travel to places in Tuscany like San Gimignano or Siena as well as wander through Florence (with or without museum visits).

Have a look at the route you're taking as you could clean it up a little geographically once you work out the exact places you want to go and for how long. Obviously the fixed dates of your tour and of O'fest will affect some parts, but try to minimise backtracking by having a map open while you plot your route.

Travel methods will vary for you - I'd use a mix of flying and train travel. Italy the Point-2-Point (P2P) tickets are cheap and it's not worth getting a full European rail pass, but you'll only know what to get once you've plotted your route.

As for your second trip, it's good to see you're chunking things geographically together here, and consider moving Berlin into this side of your travel as it's a short train ride between Berlin and Prague and you could stop in Dresden for lunch/a day on the way. You could fly into Amsterdam from London, then train or fly to Berlin, then train to Prague via Dresden, and so on.

Geneva vs somewhere else - I'd pick somewhere else if you have no major interest in something specific in Geneva. It's a pretty enough city, but not on the exciting side. Certainly visit on your way through to somewhere else, but don't use it as a base. I'd be inclined to suggest travelling direct from Lyon to Chamonix-Mont Blanc by train (around 4hrs, 2 changes), staying at least a night in Chamonix, rather than doing it as a day trip. If you stay 2 nights, you can get up Mont Blanc in the morning of your full day, spend your time up there (there's a new viewing glass box opened as of December last year) and even get time to go over to the Mer de Glace once you've come back down from the Aiguille, and then have time on arrival day afternoon to wander through town as well. But you couldn't do it all in a day and travel from/to another base such as Montreux without it being a very long and tiring day. No need to rush this one.

A few other things to keep in mind for your travel time:

Summer in Europe - it's a busy time (clearly!) and many Europeans also take their own Summer holidays in August, so the beaches are busy and some shops/restaurants in cities are closed for the month of August. Accommodation gets booked up much in advance too.

Oktoberfest - book your accommodation AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! You will pay more than usual to stay in Munich during this time, but it's worth it if you want to access the O'fest grounds easily and not travel hours each way. There is something called The Tent if you want super-budget accommodation, otherwise I'd consider booking a hotel around the train station as a) there are many budget ones to choose from, and b) it's an easy walk/underground train ride to/from the grounds.

One other thing to keep in mind - not sure what passport your are travelling on (Australian or EU country), but if you are on an Australian passport and only have an entry clearance visa for a certain period of time, rather than Right of Abode for the UK, then you will need to keep in mind the Schengen Zone rule of only 90days in the Schengen Zone (countries in the Schengen Treaty) over a 180 day period. Read here for a little more information: smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/TravelBulletins/Europe_Schengen

That should give you a little more to go ahead and continue filling in the blanks for your trips.

[jlimster]

Hi thanks for the reply,

I don't mind stretching my trip out abit in Italy as I wasn't sure how many days ideally I would need for the cities. I shortchanged Rome based on the advice of my friend that i could see most stuff in that time and I wouldn't really like the city, but I'm happy to hear advice about what to see, eat, do for 3 days. Another important thing I should emphasise is that I have to be in London by the 14/09 which explains sort of why it may seem like i'm rushing. 

The reason I'm heading to Naples is solely for Pompeii and I thought I might try to pizza in Naples so i'm not sure if I can do that as a day trip from Rome and then to Florence. Would it be enough time in a day to see Pompeii, lunch in Naples and go to Florence? Lol im not sure of where the Almalfi coast is, is it known mainly for the scenery? 

The next part I definitely want to go to Florence and Venice with a side trip to Pisa (which can be dropped if you think, as it's solely for the tower). So you would advise 3 nights in Venice and 4 nights in Florence? Would that be to just see the city properly or also a day side trip? I don't want to be too rushed of course but I also definitely want to go and see Nice, Monaco, French reviera and the Loire valley. So my trip initially was to Milan next, but I decided to skip Milan and that's why I'm goin from Venice to Monaco/Nice. Would it be better to go after Naples to Venice to Florence and then to Monaco? Rather than Florence first? 

In France I'd like advice on where to go actually. I know definitely I want to go explore Monaco. I thought i'd stay in Nice and visit Monaco from there. Do you think i should go to Marseille or stay longer in Nice and skip it? I also put Montpellier in there (although I don't know much other than there are a lot of students there) as the world's oldest medical school is there and I'm interested in historical things such as that. I think i'm pretty set on the Loire Valley and seeing the chateaux there and it'll take three full days to see the main ones so i've dedicated 4 nights there. Would I able to see Orleans and would you recommend it before i heading off to London. Again i'm interested in the historical side but also if theres any attractive sites to see and region specific food to eat. When heading off to London what would be the best way from there? It would have to be through Paris?

Thanks for your time in helping me, to basically summarise the first half from:

29/08 Fly Madrid to Rome evening. 

I want to see Rome, Pompeii, Florence, Venice, Monaco, French Rivera and Loire Valley in that time until 14/09. So that's 16 days is it possible? Like I said I don't mind skipping Marseille if you recommend or even rearranging everything for eg. after Nice going to Lyon and then to Chamonix-Mont Blanc as you recommended in the second half of my trip and I think i'll definitely do it as what I want to see is the Alps. Then to London and I can see the Loire Valley when I go to Paris after? Would love to know what the most efficient way could be.

I also heard that Lake Geneva was good which is why I thought of staying in Manteaux but yes I don't have anything specific that I want to see in Geneva (except the supercollider but I heard you can't see anything it's just a visitor centre) and I don't mind skipping it if theres no time.   

Before the second half after Oktoberfest I have time in terms of when I need to go back to the UK to go to Munich and Berlin and I wanted to rent a car and drive to Berlin on the Autobahn. Being at Oktoberfest weekend, what else should i see in Munich? Berlin I have cut short again based on advice, as my friend advised me I probably won't like it and I just want to see the main sites. 

For the second half aside if we rearrange things. I want to go to Paris, Budapest, Vienna, Prague and i have to end in Amsterdam as my return flight is from there.  I have a lot more time from 24/10 til i leave on the 15/11 so I'm happy to take my time, but I cut short Prague for eg. based on what I've read about its atmosphere. Love to hear what you recommend. 

Thanks for the advice about accommodation in August. Oktoberfest is set since I'm going via a tour. 

Your last point I'm definitely interested in, I'll be travelling on an Australian passport.. I think it is ok for me since I looked it up and it appears I automatically get the 90 day visa when i enter one of the countries. As my trip is less than 90 days (i think..) it shouldn't be a problem I think but I need to check. In the UK i will be on a Tier 4 (General) visa.

[madamtrashheap]

Aha, was wondering why the order of things and in the 2nd trip why AMS was at the end. No problem, you can easily fly from most of those places to AMS to spend the last days then fly out, so don't make things hard transport or geography-wise.

I'm sure your friend knows you better than we do, but "shortchanging" Rome and Berlin might disappoint you as there are many many things to see/do/eat/drink in both places.

Rome - rather than list a raft of things, can you tell us what you were considering doing in Rome. That way we'll have a better idea of what else to recommend.

And be warned - that day trip from Rome to Pompeii is a long day trip. Well worth it, but be prepared for an early start, hot day and getting back to Rome late. If you're up for that, then go for it. Add an overnight stay to Rome, rather than trying to get from Rome to Naples to Pompeii to Florence all in one day. Madness! And you'll be rushing, which is not what you want. Don't worry about the Amalfi Coast - save it for next time. And if you have no interest in Naples other than to say you had pizza there, then skip it and just connect to the Circumvesuviana regional train at Naples train station (follow the signs once in Naples Centrale Station) to get directly to Pompei. Trains leave every 20mins or so. If you can take the first and fast - Frecciarosso) train from Rome at 7.35am, you'll get to Naples in 1hr10min, then take the next train to Pompei (journey takes around 35mins) so you'll be there just after the Scavi open and you have a good start on the day. Then, if you find you have time, you can get pizza in Naples on your way back to Rome. There are 2 places claiming to be the first to produce pizza, but it was a street food long before these places set up. The one called Da Michele is the one which first made Pizza Margherita for the then-Queen, so that's the famous one. Great pizza can be found in Rome, just a different style to Naples, so keep an eye out for the "Forno" sighs with "Pizza al Taglio" which you can get by the square and with many different toppings.

Then, the next day, you can take the fast train Rome to Venice which takes around 3h45 and be there by lunchtime. From Venice to to Florence (again, fast journey, around 2hrs) and you can do Pisa by train as a half-day trip from Florence (you won't need more time than that), but if you plan to go up the Tower, then know that you HAVE to book well ahead and will be given a specific time and date. In the middle of Summer, it's nigh on impossible to get a ticket as you arrive. BTW, that train Florence to Nice is a long day, so if you're interested (and want to add to your destinations) Cinque Terre is a region worth looking at for a 2 night stop. Skip Milan. No need if you're not into museums or shopping. Save it for next time around.

Mar 10, 2014 1:04:48 GMT -5 jlimster said:

In France I'd like advice on where to go actually. I know definitely I want to go explore Monaco. I thought i'd stay in Nice and visit Monaco from there. Do you think i should go to Marseille or stay longer in Nice and skip it? I also put Montpellier in there (although I don't know much other than there are a lot of students there) as the world's oldest medical school is there and I'm interested in historical things such as that. I think i'm pretty set on the Loire Valley and seeing the chateaux there and it'll take three full days to see the main ones so i've dedicated 4 nights there. Would I able to see Orleans and would you recommend it before i heading off to London. Again i'm interested in the historical side but also if theres any attractive sites to see and region specific food to eat. When heading off to London what would be the best way from there? It would have to be through Paris?

Nice is a good base to explore the French Riviera, and a day trip to Monaco (or an afternoon and part of an evening) is plenty. Just don't miss the last train back to Nice (around 9.30pm from memory) as it's an expensive taxi ride back (Euro120!!!).

Montpellier is a cool town, I liked it, and in a popular region (for foodies). Marseilles is interesting, but again if you're just putting it in without a plan on what to see, perhaps you can go from Nice to Montpellier with a lunch/quick stop in Marseilles as the train goes right through there and you'll have to change stations (train comes into one and the train to Montpellier leaves from another station in town) there anyway. Luggage lockers at the train station.

As for going Lyon-Chamonix, that works, then you can fly out to London from Geneva or Grenoble (or back out of Lyon), depending on flights and if you decide to go to Montreux. Lake Geneva is stunning, and yes, a visit to the CERN facility just outside Geneva is possible but you'll have to check about their Open Days as there were only 2 last year, at the end of September, as far as I am aware. Best research it before you plan to go out there - you'll have to book ahead either way.

Ah yes, the fabled AUTOBAHN! It really means "car way" in German, that is, the highway. It's no longer possible to do whatever speed you like on every Autobahn due to EU regulations, but there are a few sectors where speed is unlimited. BE AWARE: if you're not used to high speeds (ie anything over 140km/hr) then don't push yourself. The regulated speed is 130km, and that's plenty fast enough. You can hire a car (if you're over 25yo) in Germany and drive on any highway, so you don't have to do the long trip from Munich to Berlin.

Oktoberfest is huge, again it depends on how much time you plan to spend there. There are so many things around Munich to see - Dachau Concentration Camp, Neuschwanstein castle, Linderhof castle, Herrenchiemsee, Andechs Monastery... the list is long. Munich is super busy during this time, as I noted in my previous post, so plan well ahead in terms of what you want to do.

As for not liking Berlin - I won't hear of it!!! Berlin has something for everyone, so again, tell us what you are thinking of seeing/doing and we can fill in the blanks.

[jlimster]

Thanks for the help so far, I'm still having a think about my whole itinerary so its not all finalised but a quick question. Would it be possible to travel from Florence to Monaco or Nice and see Cinque Terra in a day trip as we travel through? I've quickly had a search for day tours which may work this out and the name alessandro cammilli came up. I feel I don't want to spend so much time in Italy when my preference is France. Also could I cut back the nights in florence and venice? My main interests are to see the main sites and buildings for the culture and architecture. History and some natural scenery (but I wouldn't spend an entire day just for a view unless it is highly recommended. And food is a massive thing to me. I would travel to specific places if there is food I need to try.

To give some more background of my interests if you have been to Australia, I live in Melbourne and grew up in Sydney. To me a tourist could easily see Melbourne or Sydney, the main things in a day or if you wanted to stretch it out 2 days. People apparently like Melbourne for its culture and art especially street art in the alleys which you can explore. To me that would interest me for less than an hour and I'm done with it, this is what I've heard about Berlin (something about underground scene or art). So for Berlin the main things i would do is just see the historical side (haven't heard any praise for the city's food).


Edit: Also deciding when going to Chamonix-Mont Blanc, is there a better time to go? If I go before my UK time you can see the dates it'll be early September. If I go after it'll be early November. 

[jlimster]

29/08 Friday - Madrid –> Rome
30/08
31/08
01/09 Monday – Day Trip Pompeii. Rome
02/09 -
03/09 – Rome -> Venice (3hr 45m)
04/09 -
05/09 – Venice->Florence
06/09 – Florence
07/09 – Florence
08/09 Monday – Florence->Nice/Monaco
09/09 –Nice /Monaco
10/09 – Nice/ Monaco
11/09 – Nice -> Lyon
12/09 – Lyon -> Chamonix
13/09 – Chamonix -> Lake Geneva (Mantreaux)
14/09 – Geneva ->London

Would this work as an itinerary? Although I feel I should go to Marseille or Montpellier since I'm in the south of France already...

[jlimster]

lol i definitely would like to know if my previous Italy itinerary would work in terms of the number of days, but they may be a total change of itinerary after discussing with my friends since now they don't want to go Italy right after Spain (since it'll be August/September and the school holidays meaning long queues and crowds?) and so we'd be going Italy after being in the UK from the 24/10.

Could you also please advise if this is ok as an itinerary now!
29/08/2014 Madrid - Paris
30/08/2014 Paris
31/08/2014 Versailles  
1/09/2014 Paris
2/09/2014 Paris
3/09/2014 Loire Valley
4/09/2014 Loire Valley
5/09/2014 Loire Valley
6/09/2014 Paris
7/09/2014 Paris - Lyon
8/09/2014 Lyon - Nice
9/09/2014 Nice
10/09/2014 Monaco
Thurs11/09/2014 Nice - Turin Turin - Chamonix
12/09/2014 Chamonix
13/09/2014 Montreux
14/09/2014 Geneva - London

I split Versailles and loire valley deliberately since we don't want to get chateaux overdosed too much.
The fastest way to Chamonix from Nice is by bus. Also you advised that it would be good to stay in Chamonix for two nights? Looking at the above itinerary is that what you meant and what should i do? 

If you stay 2 nights, you can get up Mont Blanc in the morning of your full day, spend your time up there (there's a new viewing glass box opened as of December last year) and even get time to go over to the Mer de Glace once you've come back down from the Aiguille, and then have time on arrival day afternoon to wander through town as well. But you couldn't do it all in a day and travel from/to another base such as Montreux without it being a very long and tiring day.

I know i'd get to Chamonix in the late evening 8:45 since the bus leaves Turin at 6pm. The next day when you say get up Mont Blanc do you mean via the cable car? And then Mer de Glace is via the montenvers train in the afternoon? Just wanted to confirm, what I should definitely do and what I have time for. Also from chamonix to montreux is it hard to get to? I used Rome2Rio and it says I can get there but taking three trains. 

Thanks!

[madamtrashheap]

to answer an earlier question - doing CT in a day trip on your way from Florence to Monaco or Nice won't work. It's a long way and you won't see anything if you just "stop off". If Italy doesn't hold much interest for you then don't add another Italian destination to your itinerary.

Didn't realise you were travelling with friends - that always makes things more interesting in terms of sorting logistics vs likes.

The latest version of your itinerary looks fine. Just one point - if you don't have a real interest in Lyon (ie you don't want to explore the city and surrounds) then one night to have a great meal somewhere (the Old Town is the place to go) and a bit of a wander around will be perfect. Otherwise you could go straight through from Paris to Nice on the TGV.

I'm also assuming that where you have a different destination near to the previous one in the middle of your stay (eg Paris/Versaille, Nice/Monaco) that you are noting a day trip and not an overnight stay?

Turin is new on the list - what's your reason for going there? If it's just a transport thing, then it's not necessary as there are other ways.

As for Chamonix - going up the Aiguille du Midi on the cable car will let you see Mont Blanc. The same one brings you back down to Chamonix (it's a hair-raising ride, totally worth it!) Then you can do whatever else takes your interest, but I think the Mer de Glace will suit you - looks like you've already looked it up and that info is correct.

Trains from Chamonix to Montreux are going from France to Switzerland, but you can look up the Swiss Train site www.sbb.ch and click on the English section to look up what suits you in terms of train times. Because of the terrain in that area, you don't have much choice in terms of connections as that's the way the trains go. There is a weekday train that leaves Chamonix-Mont Blanc just before 9am and takes around 2hr30 to get to Montreux with 2 changes. All the others will take a lot longer because of connections. The next shorter one is after 12noon. Rather use the train websites of each country to sort out trains as other sites might not be up to date.

[jlimster]

I think the Italian itinerary looks fine now too thanks for the help. Noted about ct maybe next time if I want to go back to Italy.

Yes my only interest in lyon was to stop for food and have a wander around. Ive read its the gustatory capital of France and I want to try the specific regional cuisine. So any restaurant from the old town would be good?

Versailles is a day trip from Paris. Monaco I think I may actually stay right after Lyon and then stay in nice the other nights. This is because my friends just want to see Monaco as well but don't want to spend as much time as me in France so we'd split after Monaco.

The only reason I'm going to Turin is to get to Chamonix from what I looked up its the fastest route to go By bus. What's the fastest way to go from nice to Chamonix otherwise?

I think most of the major parts of my itinerary are done so thanks for your help so far

[madamtrashheap]

Mar 28, 2014 10:15:54 GMT -5 jlimster said:

Yes my only interest in lyon was to stop for food and have a wander around. Ive read its the gustatory capital of France and I want to try the specific regional cuisine. So any restaurant from the old town would be good?

Food in Lyon is great, and there are plenty of places in the Old Town (Vieux Lyon) to choose from. The Bouchons in rue St Jean, rue Ferrachat and rue Bouef are plentiful,but you want specific places, here's my list:


- Les Adrets
- Aux 24 Colonnes 
- Les Retrouvailles (a good alternative is Les Adrets is full)
- Can't recall the name, however the Bouchon on the left as you turn from rue St Jean which has a barrel out the front, looks "rustic" but has some of the best escargot (snails) and cuisses de grenouille (frog's legs) I've had - delish! And a great wine list all at good prices

The only reason I'm going to Turin is to get to Chamonix from what I looked up its the fastest route to go By bus. What's the fastest way to go from nice to Chamonix otherwise?

Nice-Turin-Chamonix isn't necessary, but wouldn't be a bad journey. It's going to be a 9-10hour journey by train whatever route you choose. Otherwise, you could fly from Nice to Geneva then take the AlpiBus (book online) to Chamonix which takes 1hr30 (the train takes 2h30 - 3hr and is fiddly).

Looks like the itinerary is taking shape really well!