3 Month Itinerary - Help Needed

[taylor]

I am planning a trip to Europe from May 21st to August 21st. I realize this is a long time, but is something I have been wanting to do for a long time and did not want to rush through the trip. I have most of my planning stuff going well, but I am having trouble nailing down an itinerary in order to make hostel reservations, and finalize travel plans.

Itinerary so far:

Fly Into London

UK/Ireland
London (4)
Dublin (3)
Cork (3)
Belfast (3)
Glasgow (3)
Edinburgh (3)

Overnight train to London
Fly to Paris (From reading posts it sounds like it is cheaper to fly than take the chunnel)

France
Paris (4)

Belgium
Brussels (3)

Netherlands
Amsterdam (3)

Overnight train to Berlin (Haven't looked into flying, but open to it if it makes sense money wise)

Germany
Berlin (3)

Train to Czech Rep

Czech Rep
Prague (4)

Train to Austria

Austria
Salzburg (3)
Vienna (3)

Train to Munich

Germany
Munich (3)

Train to Switzerland

Switzerland
Interlaken (2)
Luzern (2)
Gimmelwald (2)

Train to Italy

Italy
Turin (3)
Milan (1)
Cinque Terre (3)
Venice (3)
Florence (2)
Rome (4)
Sorrento (2)


Fly to Athens

Greece
Athens (3)

Fly back to London

I would like to experience as much of the culture as possible. I do not know of the smaller towns that would be nice to visit. I would really like to visit Greece but do not know of the isles or areas other than Athens that would be nice to visit. Also if it makes more sense to see more of Germany/Italy/Switzerland and take out Greece that is something I am open to.

As of right now I would be a few days over the length of my trip. (Each (#) is number of nights I plan to stay). The order is pretty much the route I planned to take. I plan on doing most of my travel on train, but I am holding out for some recommendations before committing to anything.

Thank you very much in advance for any help you can give me.

[madamtrashheap]

Hello taylor and welcome to the boards!

May to August is a great amount of time to travel and you'll be able to experience so much in that time. I guess where you go and how much time you spend in each place depends on your interests and the places that are top of your list of "must-sees". You've obviously been doing your research, I just have a few comments/suggestions to make, as will the others I'm sure.

UK/Ireland
Days in each place are fine, but would you consider seeing more of the highlands instead of 3 days in Glasgow? Or even Skye. The countryside is beautiful and you should experience it while you're there.
Cork - I'd like to see you spend time on the western peninsula (Dingle) or Galway (for the Connemara) rather than just Dublin and Cork. Great to see you're getting to Belfast - make sure you get up to the Giant's Causeway.

Fly to Paris - it can be cheaper, depending on how far ahead you book either the plane or train, but keep in mind the time of your flight and getting to the airport.

Paris - 4 days will let you see the city and spend half a day or so out at Versailles. You didn't want to see any more of France (smaller towns)?

Brussels - the others are going to jump on you for going to Brussels and not Brugge/Bruges, and this time so am I (surprise!). Perhaps spend 1 day in Brussels and 2 days in Brugge as it's a pretty place and you'll regret not seeing it.

Amsterdam-Berlin: look at flying with Transavia as it will save time.

Berlin to Prague: the train goes past Dresden, so look at either a few hours' stop or an overnight if it interests you.

Prague - no doubt you've read about the recommended day trips (Kutna Hora, Csesky Krumlov, etc) so 4 days will let you do one and see the sights of Prague too.

Austria - are you not going to Vienna after Prague and then Salzburg? Consider Innsbruck as well as Salzburg as it is in the Tirol proper and can be just as pretty. So 2 Salzburg, 1 Innsbruck.

Munich - again, I'm sure you've read about the things to see around Munich (castles, Dachau, Andechs Monastery)

Switzerland - If you're going to Interlaken for the adventure sports then fine, otherwise I'd spend the time in Luzern and go to Gimmelwald (or wherever in the mountains) for the rest of the time as it's magical.

Italy - I don't know that I'd spend 3 days in Turin/Torino, maybe just 1 or 2 full days, but that's up to you. Same as there's no need to stop in Milan (close to Turin) on the way to CT, but again if you want to see the city then 1 day will be fine. You might want 4 days in CT, Venice for 3 is fine but Florence needs 3-4 days, not 2 (insert "gasp" here!). Pisa is an hour from Florence by train, but you could easily stop here for 2 hours between CT and Venice (luggage storage area at train station). Rome for 4 days is good and you can visit Pompei on the way to or from Sorrento. There are a multitude of day trips to other towns around Italy, I guess it's a time factor. Siena always warrants a full day or even an overnight stop, San Gimignano is a 45min SITA bus ride from Florence, Verona is 2hrs from Venice, but can be visited on the way from Venice to Florence...it's endless!

Greece - 3 days in Athens is good. Have you considered any islands? Of course this will be a time thing so if you aren't set on Athens, I'd save all of Greece for a seperate trip (even though it's the perfect time of year to go there!) so you can explore the different islands as well.

Hope that helps a little, happy re-planning!

[me]

Madam has some good ideas. one she missed that i see right off the bat: why rail to London to get a flight to Paris?

it seems to make more sense to fly to Paris from Scotland. if you end up in Edinburgh, there are flights on flybe or BA from there to Paris' CDG airport. [not too far outta town]

if you night train from Amsterdam to Berlin, it goes via Bruxelles-Midi. so, you might just choose to visit Bruxelles between Amsterdam & Berlin. [maybe take a cheap Vueling flight from Paris to Amsterdam?]

there are other things, undoubtedly.

i assume this is a fall trip you are planning. if it's spring, you'd be better off going reverse - to take advantage of warmer places at the coolest weeks of your travel time.

- d

[madamtrashheap]

me said:

Madam has some good ideas. one she missed that i see right off the bat: why rail to London to get a flight to Paris?

it seems to make more sense to fly to Paris from Scotland. if you end up in Edinburgh, there are flights on flybe or BA from there to Paris' CDG airport. [not too far outta town]

Well I had to leave something for you David! Yep, spot on, soz I didn't see it - I blame tired eyes! Fly from Scotland to Paris as there's no need to go back to London, esp on an overnight train! Hey presto, an extra day!

[me]

your generosity is appreciated!

actually, where i said Madam has some good ideas - i shoulda said, "as usual, Madame has very good ideas!"

madamtrashheap said:

Well I had to leave something for you David!

[taylor]

Well I took a lot of the advice and did a little more research. I think I am getting closer to having a more set itinerary.

Thanks David for the tip about flying from Edinburgh.

I also took off Greece. It really does deserve more time and another trip.

Revised Itinerary

UK/Ireland
London - 5
Dublin - 3
Galway - 3
Belfast - 2
Iverness - 3
Edinburgh - 3

It may be worth it to spend more time in the UK. Maybe visit York?

Fly to Paris

France
Paris - 4

Not really sure of smaller towns to visit in France that would not be to far out of the way of my planned route.

Belgium
Brussels - 1
Brugge - 2

Netherlands
Amsterdam - 3

Germany[/u]
Berlin - 3
Dresden - 1

Czech Rep[/u]
Prague - 5

Austria[/u]
Vienna - 3
Salzburg - 2
Innsbruck - 1

Germany[/u]
Munich - 4

Switzerland[/u]
Lucerne - 2
Gimmerwald - 3 (Saw pictures...wow looks amazing)

Italy[/u]
Milan - 2 (Want to maybe day trip to Lake Como or the other lakes in the area)
Verona - 2
Venice - 3
Bologna - 2
Florence - 4
Siena - 1
Rome - 5
Salerno - 3 (Day trips to Capri, Pompeii)
La Spezia - 1
CT - 4
Genoa - 2
Turin - 2
Fly from Milan to London

At 78 days total. My trip is for 90 days. I think I have the cities pretty much nailed down. Just need to adjust amount I stay in certain places maybe.

[me]

reexamining, i see the time for this trip: May 21 - Aug 21. [i'm often not too observant]

EDIT: i see you've dropped Greece. so, i'd now suggest you fly first to Naples, just north of Salerno.

as such, i'd suggest starting in Greece, perhaps a flight to Santorini, ending in UK. the advantage here is twofold: you're in Greece in Springtime, when it's not so hot; and you've traveled some, learned "the ropes" of budget travel before you reach expensive UK.

i might also tinker with your route in the Isles; from Paris (last stop before what was Great Britain a century ago) to Cork <Aer Lingus?> , Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow, Edinburgh, London, home.

you should also beware the prices in Switzerland. CHF has been overvalued in the past. that prolly won't correct itself this year. [expect to pay out the wazoo there]

[me]

taylor said:

Well I took a lot of the advice and did a little more research. I think I am getting closer to having a more set itinerary.

Thanks David for the tip about flying from Edinburgh.

<snip>
Not really sure of smaller towns to visit in France that would not be to far out of the way of my planned route.

glad to help. what are your interests? it'd be easier to advise you if we knew what kinds of things you want to see.

if you like WWII history, Northern france has lots to see. [but, i'm not especially interested in that, so i'm not a good person for advice.]

my own interest is somewhat older history, from 100+ years ago, to 2 -3000 years ago. and also Cold War history is an interest. Strategic stuff is more interesting than the tactics of which armored column fought which panzer company in which plot of Belgian forest. [exaggerating for effect]

Peace of Westphalia, Concert of Vienna, these appeal to me. where are your interests?

[taylor]

I like older history. Pre 19th Century for the most part. I am also a sucker for beautiful scenery. I like small towns but I will be probably traveling mostly by train and trying to stay in Hostels so most likely I will have to day trip to smaller towns.

France does not appeal to me very much. It seems very spread out and would rather spend more time visiting places with smaller trips between places.

[madamtrashheap]

I'd really like to see you stay in Sorrento rather than Salerno - it's pretty, on the coast, has easy access to everywhere that you want to see (Capri, Pompei, Naples...) and would be more appealing than Salerno as it's got more of a village feel to it. Salerno has it's own points of interest and great history, but I think Sorrento would suit you better, based on your comments/interests.

I also don't think it's necessary to stay in La Spezia - it's so close to CT. And now that I see you're interested in Lake Como (yay!) I'd suggest staying there rather than Milan (take the extra day from La Spezia and Milan to give you at least 2 days). Genoa/Genova - stay in the Boccadasse part of town if you can, it's a better part of town and pretty, or perhaps in the old town.

And I guess you've looked at day trips from London.

[taylor]

Sorrento definitely looks like my kind of town. I would be so lost without you guys to help. ;D

I am trying to figure out if it makes more sense just to fly from Heathrow to Naples the day I arrive in London or to try and get a cheaper ticket at a different airport. It seems like it just makes sense to try to fly out the same day and avoid all the hassles that the cheaper flight would cause.

Also using Railsaver it looks like it will actually be cheaper to just buy P2P rail tickets for my trip. Is that something I should do or should I just spring for a more expensive rail pass for more convenience?

[me]

might i suggest adding one of my German "homes?" Münster was the site where Treaty of Münster was negotiated in 1648, with Treaty of Osnabrück - collectively known as Peace of Westphalia, ending the 30 years war & creating, in theory, the Westphalian System of interaction between sovereign states.

Münster is an Uni-town, very youth oriented. yet historical & "local."

- d

taylor said:

I like older history. Pre 19th Century for the most part. I am also a sucker for beautiful scenery. I like small towns but I will be probably traveling mostly by train and trying to stay in Hostels so most likely I will have to day trip to smaller towns.

France does not appeal to me very much. It seems very spread out and would rather spend more time visiting places with smaller trips between places.

[madamtrashheap]

If you're considering swapping the order around, then by all means fly directly to Naples (closest airport to Sorrento) and start there. EasyJet flies from London Stansted, however that would be a hike from Heathrow depending on the time of day you land. Have a look at BMI (direct flights) or Alitalia (indirect flights) from Heathrow. Otherwise there are flights with British Airways from Gatwick Airport and flights out of London City with AirOne. NOTE: Naples airport is closed from 4th - 6th June this year for repairs. It's all going to depend on flight times so you may find that you have to keep the original order and fly Milan back to London at the end...unless you have an open jaw tickets.

I think you're on the right track with your planning, keep us updated.

me said:

actually, where i said Madam has some good ideas - i shoulda said, "as usual, Madame has very good ideas!"

Flattery will get you everywhere! ;D

[herrbert]

When looking for a flight from London to Naples, check BMI first, as they will fly from Heathrow. So you don't have to make the transfer to one of the other airports. These BMI flights are in the late morning. (11.15), the Easyjet-flight including the transfer might work just as expensive (of course depending on the day), but is later in the day (around 16.00)

On flying Amsterdam - Berlin check Transavia, I can't see flights from Brussels or Charleroi (aka Brussels-South) so if you keep your original plan go Brussels - Amsterdam, when you want to fly, and Amsterdam - Brussels, when you take the train.

[taylor]

When flying into Naples I am having trouble figuring out the best way to visit the northern areas of Italy without out doing some backtracking. From Rome I was thinking of heading up to Florence area, but from Florence not sure what would make the most sense. Either head to CT and work my way around eventually back to bologna. Or head up from Florence to Bologna all the way around eventually to CT.