40 Days, 40 Adventures

[zachstanley]

First of all, I'd like to say hello to everyone on GFE! I've been lurking on this board for quite a while, and it's been indispensible in my research and planning.

A buddy and I are ironing out the kinks in a 40-day trip around Europe as our last great thrill before we go off to college. Both of us will be 18, fortunately-- just old enough to be legal for some of the simple pleasures, and young enough that we can take a beating and rack up some discounts while we're at it.

We're looking to leave JFK airport on June 26th, 2008 to arrive in London early on the 27th. Right now our itinerary is as follows:

London - 5 nights
Paris (via morning plane) - 4 nights
Pamplona (via overnight train) - 2 nights
Barcelona (via evening train) - 4 nights, might cut this down
Rome (via morning plane) - 5 nights
Venice (via evening train) - 3 nights
Interlaken (via morning train) - 2 nights
Prague (via overnight train) - 2 nights
Berlin (via morning train) - 4 nights
Amsterdam (via evening train) - 4 nights
London (via morning plane) - 1 final night, and then back home the next day

I feel like most of our time provisions are reasonable and won't rush us much. However, we are considering cutting a little time off Barcelona, Venice, and Amsterdam to potentially throw Florence into the mix. Does this sound like a feasible tradeoff?

Please offer whatever suggestions come to mind! I'll be grateful for any advice you seasoned travelers can provide.

Zach

[pointofnoreturn]

For London, Rome, Paris, Venice - I would be comfortable with the amount of nights. They're very close to the no. of nights in a recent trip.

Florence - it's really beautiful and the city is quite compact. While it doesn't have a metro system, it's certainly walkable and has an extensive bus network. Florence can be doable in 2 nights but 3 nights is the recommended minimum time.

[Eagle]

zachstanley, Welcome to the Boards! I'll try and have a more detailed look at your Itinerary tomorrow, however a couple of thoughts to begin with.

I would definitely recommend trying to fit Florence into your trip, as it's a wonderful and interesting city. Even if you're not too interested in art, it's worthwhile to see at least one of the major galleries in Florence (Uffizi or Accademia).

One destination that is conspicuous by it's absence is the Cinque Terre. As you've been "lurking" for a while I assume you're aware of it, so was a bit curious on why it wasn't on the list? As you're planning on visiting Interlaken, were you also going to see Gimmelwald?

If you're looking to squeeze a bit more time for some destinations, you might consider "open jaw" flights, as not returning to London for the flight home will provide a bit more time. You might be able to rearrange the order to cities if you don't have to get back to London.

Happy planning!

[me]

if you're going to Pamplona for the Running of the Bulls, you need to reserve a place to stay asap. it might be too late already.

stories abound online <they might be urban myths?> of young people who sleep in the park getting robbed.

where did you find this night train from Paris to Pamplona? a flight to a nearby airport might be cheaper - unless you'll have a Eurail youthpass.

i've never done fermin, bull fights and such have no appeal.

also, as i've told others, i strongly suggest visiting London last. some reasons:

1. London is the most expensive city on your list. no reason to spend your wasted "Jetlag recovery time" in the most expensive city.

2. also because London is so expensive: that city is not the best 1st place to practice your low cost travel skills. better to learn in a cheaper place.

3. your flight home is via London: if, for some reason (mechanical problems, a worker's strike, whatever) your Amsterdam - London flight is delayed, it'd be very costly to reschedule your flight to JFK. (unless both of these flights are on the same airline, maybe even if they are, you could be SOL)

- d

[pointofnoreturn]

You might want to put London at the end of your trip. If you can't find a decent open jaw flight, fly into London and hop onto another flight or train to your destination.

London isn't expensive..... if you research ahead. Book your accomodations WAY ahead of time! The only $$$$ thing about London is lodgings and food. Many museums are free and worthwhile of your time. Look into getting a 7-day travelcard (that allows you 2-for-1 entry at certain sights) or an Oyster card.

[me]

pointofnoreturn said:

London isn't expensive..... The only $$$$ thing about London is lodgings and food. Many museums are free and worthwhile of your time.

my point is that London is expensive for jet lag recovery - the time when you don't feel much like going out to see museums, etc. that's the time when food and lodgings are the main expenses - when you don't much feel like fixin' your own meals.

low cost travel skills are often about getting cheap room & board. cheap transportation & tricks for cheap museum tix are also important, but less so for the first day or two (when jet lag is a problem). no?

- d

[pointofnoreturn]

^ True. I just meant London in general when it comes to travel, not really about the start or end of a trip. People just need to make an extra effort to investigate low cost accomodations, food and travel regarding London and in the end, you usually come under budget for that city

[Eagle]

I think it would be safe to say that just about everywhere in the U.K. is expensive! However, I just checked the expense data from my trip last fall, and London was somewhat more expensive than either Bath or the Cotswolds. However, this was partly due to the fact that the Hotel I selected only had a double room available, which was priced somewhat higher (they charged a reduced price for a double, but it was still more than a single). I suspect the cost of the same class of room would be similar anywhere in the U.K.

The Hotel in London was in a fantastic location (Chelsea/Belgravia near Victoria station), and the breakfasts were awesome (as was the morning conversation with the owners and the other guests)! Overall I felt it was good value, and just accepted the fact that London is an expensive city.

[WillTravel]

I think it depends how bad your jetlag is too. I have never been so jetlagged that I couldn't appreciate London. I basically have a difficult 12 hours or so, and it's over the next morning. I know some people need several days to recover. I also don't find London expensive unless I visit sit-down restaurants, or unless I start buying theatre tickets with wild abandon (or even moderate abandon). I try not to spend more than 10 pounds on a theatre ticket, but sometimes it can't be helped, and I do miss the best seats at the most popular musicals with this philosophy.

The basics are: Cheap accommodation (student residence, Travelodge, hostel, or Priceline - depending on your needs and circumstances), cheap food (grocery stores, Indian buffets, Maoz falafel), cheap transport (Oyster card), free museums.

I haven't posted this for a while, so here is a tip about an all-you-can-eat Indian vegan buffet place:

92 Chapel Market (near the Angel tube). It cost less than 4 pounds ($8 USD), the last time I checked. The food is not the best Indian food I've ever had, but wholesome and good quality.

[Eagle]

WT,

don't find London expensive unless I visit sit-down restaurants, or unless I start buying theatre tickets

"Sit down restaurants" and Theatre tickets are definitely something that increased my costs in London (I enjoyed both!). I splurged on a couple of occasions at Fifteen and Santini's, and I was very determined to see Mamma Mia while in London, regardless of the cost.

Those were expensive parts of my visit, but I certainly don't regret either!

[WillTravel]

Eagle, I can totally see they would be worth the price. Some costs are high, but you get a very high value for them.

[zachstanley]

Eagle:

I think we will try to fit Florence into the itinerary. It looks and sounds like a beautiful city, and the art appeals to me. My friend has already been all over Italy, so he's indifferent but doesn't mind seeing it again. Cinque Terre would be cool, but I don't think there will be time. It's either that or Florence, and the latter attracts me more.

We are definitely planning on hitting Gimmelwald while in Switzerland! The Mountain Hostel there looks like an absolutely wicked experience; both of us are really into the wild outdoors too, which should be a pleasant break from the bustling cities.

I'm looking into open-jaw flights, which we considered before but opted agaisnt due to airline availability. The hard part is trying to strike a balance between cost and convenience; Zoom Airlines offers great fare between NY and London, but that's their only route between the US and Europe. Does anyone here have any recommendations for inexpensive open-jaw plane tickets?


David:

We were indeed heading to Pamplona for San Fermin and the Running of the Bulls. It's a little earlier in the festival, which we hoped might make reservations at least slightly easier to come by. I've heard that a lot of San Fermin-ers book their rooms up to a year in advance, so I guess I'll try my luck and if we come up with nothing, we'll cut out Pamplona and maybe add time in Madrid to be split with Barcelona. Just wanna make sure we get an authentic true Spanish experience somewhere in there, because Barcelona is of a slightly different breed from what I understand and I don't speak any Catalan, heh.

I found the night train from Paris to Pamplona via Die Bahn's query page. I'm having trouble finding decent flights to Pamplona, and this just seemed like the easiest way to manage from Paris to Barcelona, and then by plane over to Rome.


pointofnoreturn:

That may be what we end up doing (London at the end of the trip). I suppose we could fly into Barcelona and then move on to Pamplona. This would probably force us to rearrange most of the destinations, but it shouldn't be too hard to set everything up so we end up in London by the conclusion of our trip. Maybe (very rough):

London > fly to > Barcelona > Pamplona > fly to > Rome > Florence > Venice > Interlaken > Prague > Berlin > Amsterdam > Paris > fly to > London

The only thing keeping the intinerary slightly inflexible near the beginning is San Fermin in Pamplona. If we decide to cut that, everything else can be swapped about with much more ease. However, the start and end dates of the total trip cannot bend by more than a week or so due to school, etc.


WillTravel:
I don't think jetlag will be too much of a problem. Both of our sleep schedules are pretty irregular as it is, so I believe (perhaps naively) that we'll be pretty resilient against that little obstacle.

Thanks for the other tips; we'll definitely be checking out the Indian food while in London.

[pointofnoreturn]

With Zoom, you could fly back to Toronto or Montreal?

Toronto is a short hop from Buffalo, NY and there's a train service between Montreal and NYC for about $65 each way?

By the way, if you're still looking for budget accomodations in London, Travelodge has a 9-pound (and up) room sale for May, June and July for UK locations.

You can get an ensuite double/twin/family room for 9, 19 or 29 pounds if you're lucky and you can save a lot of money and also get more privacy than a dorm room.

[zachstanley]

I'll look into those Travelodge deals--thanks!

Regarding airports: I live in a suburb of Kansas City, KS and my friend is in the Pittsburgh, PA area. The departure point from the USA doesn't matter so much; we'd just like to be on the same flight to Europe.

[WillTravel]

What sort of airfare price do you have in mind, or have you found so far?