So happy to find this board, so hopeful for help

[sapl]

Hello! First, all the advice given here is amazing and worth more than any thank you I could write.

We have very little time in Europe (About 9 days), but want to see a lot (doesn't everyone?) My non-negotiable is Paris (which we fly in and out of) his was (is maybe, still) Prague.

Is this possible? How? Where do I start?

Thanks so much in advance....I was starting to give up until I found this forum!

[herrbert]

Yes it is possible.

and then comes the but ...

If you want to enjoy Paris, and take a good amount of time to get to know it a little bit you'll probably need 4 days. which means you have 5 days left. Getting to Prague by train from Paris takes 12-13 hours, which means you need two days for traveling alone. which leaves 3 days to see Prague. Doable but I wouldn't like it to spend most of 2 days in the train, especialy if you have only 9 days in total.

There are however nighttrains, but these take around 15 hours, and make you miss most of the morning. So a flight would be a good way to get to Prague, if you need to go there.

My choice would be to take a look at some places in the neighborhood. Amsterdam is 4 hours away by Thalys, and either on the way there you could visit Brussels.

Another good option in my opinion, would be to train to Cologne, and see Strassbourg (either on the way there, or on the way back)

[madamtrashheap]

sapl, welcome to GFE.

Good to see you've been reading the other Posts on the Boards to help you plan your short trip.

As herrbert has noted, flying from Paris to Prague would be your best bet in terms of making the most of your time. Check with Sky Europe (from Orly Airport), Czech Airlines (from CDG, book ahead for good prices) or Air France (also from CDG airport, sometimes has good deals).

Paris will need 4 days and Prague should have 3 days (that's full days, not nights), so you'll have 2 days "spare". As you need to get back to Paris the night before your flight, I'd suggest you look at day trips from either Paris or Prague to fill in the extra day or so, rather than trying to cram in another city. There are plenty to choose from for either city:

Paris - Epernay, Versailles, Giverny, Lyon....
Prague - Kutna Hora, Plsen or Cesky Krumlov (better as an overnight stop as is a long day trip).

Have you worked out your accommodation for Paris yet? And what time of year are you travelling?

[sapl]

Thank you both!

We are planning on going July 22-Aug 3, but I have been hesitant to book tickets. Flying from Canada is quite expensive and I am now thinking open jaw - fly to London, immediatly fly to Prague, head to France on the train.

Accomodations have not been planned yet - I have special hotel rates, but even that can get expensive. Plus they have to be booked in advance so I need to know what city and when I will be there.

We are 30, so a little older than most backpackers/hostelers, but the idea of a B&B sounds nice.

I am starting to think that I am the biggest barrier to this trip! I just don't see how it can all be planned. Would you guys say a lot of it is on the spot deciding?

[Libby]

I'm 38 and will be staying in Hostels for almost my entire trip beginning next month. I stayed in hostels while in Scotland and England back in 2005 too. I was 34 then and often the youngest person in my room

I actually plan just about everything for my trip. Where I'll be on what days and approx. what I'lll be doing. Of course, allow for changes due ot weather, etc. but for the most part I stick with it. The key is to schedule BUT be flexible if something strikes your fancy. Don't be too rigid.

YOu can get this done. Don't worry about it. The first key is to settle on where you are going andhow you are going to get there. From there, you can decide where you will stay, etc.

[Eagle]

sapl,

I am starting to think that I am the biggest barrier to this trip! I just don't see how it can all be planned. Would you guys say a lot of it is on the spot deciding?

"How it can all be planned" is actually relatively easy for a nine day trip and two destinations. I'm sure the group here will be able to help sort out the details.

To begin with, it would help to know where in Canada you're flying from? In order to minimize travel time between cities, using open jaw flights inbound to Paris CDG and outbound from Praha PRG is probably the easiest method, but probably not the cheapest. Air Canada has flights on that route, but they're a bit on the "pricey" side. Therefore it will be necessary to find a "creative alternative". My suggestion would be to research flight options on the net, and then speak with a Travel Agent to see if they can find any better choices.

Using Vancouver as an example, one open jaw combination that might work would be to fly inbound to Paris CDG and return home from Frankfurt FRA using Air Transat. Unfortunately, they only have flights to CDG on 19 July or 23 July, however if you're flying from another city it may be possible? They do have a return flight on 3 August however. When flying to Europe, keep in mind that you'll lose one day in flight times and time zone changes, so it would really help to have some flexibility in your departure date!

Using the dates you specified in your most recent post and the Air Transat flight dates, would something like this work:

> July 23 - Depart home airport

> July 24 - Arrive Paris CDG @ 16:05 (use RER & Metro to get from CDG into Paris)

> July 25 - Paris (sightseeing your choice - if you're planning to visit any of the Museums, then a www.parismuseumpass.com/en/home.php would be a really good idea (perhaps the two-day version).

> July 26 - Paris (if you're planning to visit The Louvre, don't try and see all three wings in one visit. You might want to concentrate on the Denon Wing).

> July 27 - Paris (If you like Impressionist Art, the Musee d'Orsay is wonderful!)

> July 28 - Paris (If you want to ascend the Eiffel Tower, prepare for a long queue! Try to pick the time of day, as the lines are a bit less at certain times. There's an extra charge if you want to go right to the top)

> July 29 - travel Paris to Prague: you could travel either via train (night train perhaps as that would give you one more day of touring in Paris) or via budget air. For example, there's a night train departing Paris Est at 20:20, arriving Praha hl.n at 14:50 (time 18H:30M, one change in Munich, reservations compulsory, Couchette fees extra). Fortunately, the change in Munich doesn't happen until about 07:00, so you may get a good nights' sleep?

You could also travel by budget air on that route which is probably the method I'd use. Unfortunately, the flight options are a bit limited. One option would be to use WizzAir from Paris Beauvais to Prague (flight time is less than two hours). The disadvantage is that Beauvais is WAY outside Paris, so you'd have to allow for that in your planning. Czech Airlines flies from Paris CDG to Prague, however when I checked that route, the price was listed at Cdn$1149!!! SO, you have two choices - a LONG rail trip or short flight from Beauvais.

One important note regarding the budget airlines - be sure to read the "fine print" carefully. They usually have very restrictive baggage limits and tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable. Be sure to PACK LIGHT!

> July 30 - Prague

> July 31 - Prague

> August 1 - Prague

> August 2 - travel Prague to Frankfurt. Depending on the time of your return flight, you could possibly make this trip on 3 August, however you would risk missing your flight if the train was delayed for any reason.

One option might be to try and fit one extra city into your Itinerary. For example, you could take the train from Prague to Nurnberg early in the morning and then either spend one day/night in Nurnberg or one day/night in Rothenburg ob der Tauber (Germany's best preserved medieval city). It's relatively easy to get from there to Frankfurt, especially as there's a rail station right in the airport! I'd have to look at the rail connections, but just thought I'd "throw that into the mix" for consideration.

If you haven't travelled in Europe before, I'd highly recommend reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door, as it provides an incredible amount of information on everything from Itinerary planning to Rail skills (which will be very important skills to have!).

A few final but important notes

1.) Due to the fact that you'll be travelling in PEAK travel season in Europe, it's a good idea to plan very precisely and pre-book accommodations. You might want to check some Guidebooks to get ideas on places you might want to stay. If you need suggestions, post another note.

2.) Try to take at least two ATM cards as well as at least one credit card. Note that your funds will have to be in a chequing account with a four-number PIN. Try to provide some flexibility in your travel budget, as Europe can be expensive!

3.) Be vigilant of petty thieves, as they are quite active in some parts of Europe. Wear a Money Belt!!! The Guidebooks have suggestions on how to minimize problems in that regard. Underneath the Eiffel Tower is one area to be cautious (don't give them money, that only encourages them), and anywhere there are crowds of people packed tightly together, especially the Metro and Buses.

Good luck with your planning!

[madamtrashheap]

Mar 12, 2009 14:51:51 GMT -5 Eagle said:

Czech Airlines flies from Paris CDG to Prague, however when I checked that route, the price was listed at Cdn$1149!!!

Yikes! When I checked (geddit?!!) Czech Airways, the return ticket Paris-Prague was Euro250 (CAN$410), hence the recommendation for this airline and not WizzAir. I just plugged in the July/August dates (I previously used May) and the above figures still came up. A single ticket is around Euro125 (incl taxes) so book at least two months in advance to get the good prices.

sapl, you mentioned you were considering flying into Prague first then out of Paris, which would also work, as would Eagle's suggestion of flying out of Frankfurt if the open-jaw ticket price is cheaper. Check the costs of open-jaw tickets for each destination combination, as well as in and out of Paris, and see which works out best for you in terms of cost.

For accommodation ideas, B&B or budget hostels will likely suit your needs, although don't rule out hostels (for future reference too) as many of the Members on these Boards stay in Hostels and many of us are also over 35. Some suggestions for budget hotels to get you started are:

Paris
Hotel Esmeralda- 4 rue St-Julien-le-Pauvre 75005 (Latin quarter); was a secret but now travel guides have let the cat out of the bag; I last stayed in the hotel in 1995, still a bargain for Paris and Metro St-Michel is the main stop so right in the heart of the city and next to great lanes of Latin Quarter. www.eurocheapo.com/paris/hotel/hotel-esmeralda.html
Hotel du Champ de Mars – 7 rue du Champs de Mars, great location (in the 7th, 5mins walk to Eiffel Tower, Champs Elysees, 10mins to Rodins Gardens and Eglise du Dome); www.hotelduchampdemars.com
Hotel Elysess Union – rue de l’Amiral Hamelin, Paris www.elysees-union.com/index.html located 300m from the Arc de Triomphe, great hotel in great location
Timhotel Tour Eiffel – the name says it all really, not far from the tower; www.timhotel.com/hotels/us/eiffel.html
Timhotel Opera-Madeleine – located near the Paris Opera, shops and just up the road from the Louvre; www.timhotel.com/hotels/us/madeleine.html

Or you could look at renting an appartment if your hotel rates or those above aren't suitable. You'll notice the properties I've listed are all pretty central, so sometime cost a little more for the convenience.

Prague
Hotel Ibis Prague Old Town – great location (just next to Palladium centre) and a 5 minute walk to the Old Town Square. A good choice as you can walk everywhere from here. www.ibishotel.com/gb/hotel-5477-ibis-praha-old-town/index.shtml
This is my top recommendation as it's centrally located (you can walk everywhere) and is right near a metro and train station should you need them. Other accommodation you could look at (I haven't stayed there so can't recommend, but they get good reviews) are:
Hotel Seven Days - grand hotel just in the New Town about 3mins from Wenceslas Square and 5 from the Old Town. www.hotelsevendays.com/
Hotel Residence Mala Strana - good hotel located in the Mala Strana (little quarter) which sits under the Castle. It's within walking distance to everything, but isn't right in the centre of it all. Good internet rates. www.hotelresidence-mala-strana.com/

As the others have stated, planning a trip isn't impossible and you will do it. It just seems insurmountable at the moment as there are so many things to consider (flights, accommodation, sightseeing...). Once you've answered flight cost questions for the start and end of your journey, you will find the blanks start to fill themselves in quite well...and when they don't we will be here to help! ;D

[herrbert]

Just a tip, try SkyEurope. Flight on the 29th to Prague from Paris (Orly) and a return on the 1st cost 142 euros. (the same for returns on the 2nd)

general tip: edreams.com seems to work very well for selecting flights, and it covers both budget and normal airlines.

[sapl]

New thought: can you guys just come on vacation with us? You are so helpful that it makes me want to cry (sensing I may be too sensitive)

So after looking at flights until 1 a.m. today (BTW Eagle, I am flying out of Halifax, he has been relocated for work to Dallas, so we need to have a city to meet up in), this is what I found:

Open-jaw ticket Halifax-Paris, Frankfurt-Halifax total cost around $1,200 (we will do eastern europe another time, so no Prague).

But I found a ticket, direct from Halifax-London for $770 taxes in. From my research it seems that after taxes to get from London to Paris and Frankfurt to London, my best bet would be to take the first flight (although for some reason paying more than $1000 is killing me.)

Any thoughts?

[Libby]

I fly out of Halifax myself. That's a good price. I got shafted when I bought mine, Halifax - London, Berlin to Halifax and it was over $1100

Between London and Berlin I"m doing the train.

There is no need to fly between London and Paris.

[WillTravel]

Sapl, when are your dates? Maybe you could fly into London and out of another city.

[sapl]

My travel dates are July 23-Aug3/4

[Libby]

I agree. That's what I did and it saved me a fair bit of money. Add on my rail pass and I think I did quite well.

I've always found that moving in one direction makes the most sense. LIke, fly to London because it's cheap and direct to Halifax. Then take the train to Paris and go on from there. Flying out of Frankfurt is good as that is the main connector to Canadian flights.

[Eagle]

sapl, thanks for the clarification on where you're flying from; that helps.

Given that you're going to drop Prague from this trip, that makes the planning a bit easier. One possibility would be to fly open-jaw into London and return from Paris. Unfortunately, Air Transat doesn't offer return flights from Paris to Halifax, nor does Canadian Affair (strictly U.K. only). One possibility would be to use the often maligned Air Canada, as they have flights into LHR and returning from CDG. I had a brief look at the prices and it appears to be about $1182, including all taxes and fees. Two points of note on using Air Canada are that you'll be flying into Heathrow (I generally prefer Gatwick as it's smaller and more "user friendly") and the return flight has one connection at Toronto Pearson YYZ. Neither point is a "deal breaker" IMHO, and it's a method I would use under the circumstances.

One point to mention regarding Air Canada - although they seem to have a bit of a "reputation", I used them last year on a flight from B.C. to Rome (several connections) and I'll be using them again this year, inbound to Paris CDG and outbound from Milano MXP. I've found that if several carriers fly a particular route, AC generally matches the price. My experience with them has been generally favourable, except for a few minor annoyances. I'll post a note when I return this year if my opinion has changed.

Your other alternative would be to book a return flight into London Gatwick with Air Transat or one of the other charter carriers. If you choose to focus on London and Paris this time, the distance is not that great so it's not too difficult to get back to your starting point for your return flight. You could also branch out a bit and perhaps do a bit of touring in Bruges, Amsterdam or other locations in France. However, one thing to keep in mind is that you only have eight days, so don't try and fit too much in. London, Paris and a few day trips is the best and most realistic plan, IMHO.

For day trips from London, you could have a look at Bath or York, as both are easily achievable. For day trips from Paris, Versailles is an easy trip (MTH or one of the others can provide further information on that). Normandy is possible as a day trip if well planned, but it's difficult to visit any of the beaches without transportation as everything is quite "spread out". For tours of the D-Day beaches, I normally recommend a day tour with BattleBus Tours, but that's only possible for those staying at least one night in Bayeux. You could stop in Caen or Bayeux for the day? Caen has one of the best WW-II Museums in France. For travel to the Normandy area, you would be departing from Gare St. Lazare, which is one of about six stations in Paris (easily reachable via Metro).

New thought: can you guys just come on vacation with us? You are so helpful that it makes me want to cry (sensing I may be too sensitive)

That brings up a good point. Whichever cities you choose, I'd suggest packing a Guidebook for each city along. I find they're excellent reference during trip, and can provide information on Museum costs, opening & closing days/hours, places to stay and dine, etc. There have been some spirited discussions here in the past on "the best Guidebooks". You can search if you're interested (the group here knows which ones I favour).

When you decide on cities, let the group know if you need Hotel / Hostel suggestions.

Happy planning!

[Libby]

If you want more information about Bath or York, I'd be happy to help out. I've been to both. York I stayed in for 4 days and returned there as a day trip in 2006. Same with London. I've been there so much I"m starting to draw maps for friends by memory

And I"ve flown only Air CAnada and have had a pretty good experience with them. Especially flying into London with them. I don't ind Heathrow. You get used to it